Books That Spark Joy: A Chat with Sarah Mackenzie

Pam Barnhill [00:00:01]:
Are you ready for homeschooling to feel joyful again? Do you long for support as you learn alongside your kids? Welcome to Homeschool Better Together, a podcast about building a homeschool experience that works for your family. I’m Pam Barnhill and it’s time to step out of the overwhelm and into the wonder. Let’s do this. Hello. Hello. I am joined today by the delightful miss Sarah Mackenzie from the Read Aloud Revival podcast and readaloudrevival.com. And, Sarah, I wanted to have you on to talk to you just a little bit about books, what you’ve been reading, and to share a story with you. Did you know that you completely reinspired my reading life?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:00:53]:
Okay. What? First of all, I’m always game to talk about books. You know this, like, my favorite thing ever, but I need to hear this story.

Pam Barnhill [00:01:01]:
Yeah. So it was, like, over a year ago now. Right? You had a mother’s reading retreat. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For read aloud revival. And you did this in September. Right? Mhmm.

Pam Barnhill [00:01:13]:
August. I think it was August. I think

Sarah Mackenzie [00:01:14]:
it was August. Mhmm.

Pam Barnhill [00:01:15]:
Yeah. And I thought that sounds like so much fun. And so I attended the retreat. I just kind of, like, snuck into the little rooms and listened to all the stuff that was going on and just had a blast. And you guys talked about just books and reading journals. So I jumped on that bandwagon for a while and did reading journals, but it also inspired me to revitalize my local book club. Oh, how fun. Yes.

Pam Barnhill [00:01:44]:
So we had not met since 2020, you know, that year. Yep. And so I reached out to some ladies from church and I’m like, hey. Do you wanna come and join me? And they did. And now we have, like, 9 ladies who meet every single month to talk about books that we’re reading.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:02:03]:
That’s so fun. Who picks the books? Like, do you pick them or do you rotate, or how does that work?

Pam Barnhill [00:02:07]:
I don’t pick them. So I’m like the administrative person. Right? So I, like, set up the group me and and stuff like that, but we pick them as a group. So Oh, okay. Yeah. So and we have, like, a couple of really voracious readers, and this is, like, the really cool thing. You never know who’s gonna be sitting, like, across the pew from you in church who is a huge reader because we don’t always just, like, talk about books or something all the time. And some of these ladies, they read so much.

Pam Barnhill [00:02:39]:
And so they’re the ones who are constantly suggesting books.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:02:42]:
So yeah. That’s so fun. That’s really exciting to hear too because we are doing that reading retreat. Again, we’re gonna refresh it, but we’re doing it in January of 2025. Oh, we been a little while. Yeah. So that’s so fun to hear you say that. I’m like, oh, that’s great, because yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:02:57]:
You know, it’s I think it’s really common for a lot of us to, like we read for pleasure usually when we’re younger, but then we get busy. And then especially as, like, homeschooling moms, we’re reading for something, either, like, to preread something for our kids or because it has to do with school or, like, to be a better mom. Like, I’m gonna read this book because I think it’s gonna make me a better mom or a better wife or a better whatever to improve ourselves, and we forget sort of the delights of just reading because it’s completely delightful.

Pam Barnhill [00:03:25]:
That is so much fun. Yes. Because that was the thing for me. I had really kinda gotten into this rut of reading because I’m I was supposed to or reading because I should, reading something because that’s the thing I should read to make myself a better mom or because I’m a whole school mom or something like that. And it had really sucked the joy out of reading for me for the longest time. And so I kind of got into a position where I just stopped reading altogether, and it wasn’t until that reading retreat that I started back up again. So thank you. And this is great because this is coming out in December of 2024.

Pam Barnhill [00:04:01]:
Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Everybody can just go check out that reading retreat. I’m sure if you go get on the email list, request a book list at read aloud revival.com, you’ll be able to get on the email list and hear about that retreat when it opens up. And you have some book lists for moms over there as well. So

Sarah Mackenzie [00:04:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. We usually come out with a fresh one too for these reading retreats just because it’s fun to, like well, part of the problem, I think well, at least for me, part of the problem when I get into a reading rep, which happens regularly, is because I’ve read too many books in a row that had just not captured me. So, like, I need someone to come and be like, okay. Here’s one that you can’t put down. Here’s one that I couldn’t put down. You’re like, okay.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:04:38]:
Sometimes if that doesn’t work because everybody has different reading taste, but it’s really helpful to have a list. And, like, as soon as you get one experience of, like, getting where you’re completely ignoring your laundry and, like, staying up way later than you want to because you can’t put the book down, you’re like, I forgot how much fun this is, and I haven’t had this. And it’s, like, not just fun, but it’s also, like, available to you no matter how many kids you have or what your schedule’s like or how much homeschooling is dominating everything you’re doing right now. Like, you you do have this, like, free source of joy available to you. We just kinda forget. And we either forget or we just get into a rut, and it’s hard to be a reader if you’re reading a book after a book after a book. Like, none of this is capturing me. So

Pam Barnhill [00:05:26]:
I love it. Okay. I love it. So how do you choose which books you put on your list, especially for moms over at re revival?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:05:34]:
It’s a very complicated system in which the basic driver is, did Sarah like it? Could Sarah put it down? There’s a little more to it than that, of course, but in general, like, I am constantly reading all the time, I’m reading so many different kinds of books, and I ditch books pretty quickly. So if I’m reading a book and by, like at least by 25% in, if I’m like, this is not a book that I’m going out of my way to come back to, I will usually ditch it. Because usually, by about a quarter of the way into a book, the author’s best writing is usually in the very beginning. So if they haven’t captured you yet, at the beginning, it’s probably not the best fit. And I just know there’s so many wonderful books that I if I spend too much time on a book I just don’t love, that I’m just not interested in, there’s

Pam Barnhill [00:06:24]:
other books. Giving us permission to be book quitters. Book quitters.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:06:28]:
Yes. Actually, I really think it’s true that the most voracious readers I know who are adults quit more books than anybody else. Because if you don’t and you read a book and you feel like you have to get all the way through it, so you’re you’re halfway in and you’re like, I’ve gotta slog through the rest of this. I’ve just gotta finish it so I can get to something better. The chances that you’re, like, rearranging things in your schedule or staying up late reading or, you know, forgetting deciding that you’re just not gonna clean the bathroom today because you’re gonna read it a little bit longer or whatever is very low because there’s way too many other demands on your attention. So then you just don’t read as often. And so I think people who are voracious readers tend to be book quitters as soon as they you realize it’s not right off the bat. I will say this.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:07:11]:
Most books are hardest to get into right at the very beginning, especially fiction because you’ve got, like, different character names and places, and you’re, like, orienting yourself, especially a lot of the fiction I love is dual perspective. So they’ll be, like, maybe one character who’s a 100 years behind, and then the other character, you know, it toggles back and forth. And it takes a minute to kinda be, like, wait. What’s going on? And so there’s, like, more mental calories have to be spent Okay. Orienting yourself to what you’re reading. So I don’t usually let myself quit before about I mean, it’s not, like, rigid, but, like, about a quarter of the way through. But if by a quarter of the way through

Pam Barnhill [00:07:49]:
through the exposition, and you’re, like, now I know who everybody is. The plot has started moving forward. Yeah. Now I realize whether or not I’m gonna like it or not.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:07:57]:
Because then you feel like I’m not quitting because I’m lazy, because I already got through the hard part. I’m quitting because this isn’t a good fit for me, which is very different.

Pam Barnhill [00:08:05]:
You know, it’s so funny because the boys and I started To Kill A Mockingbird in morning time very recently, and I read the first chapter, and at the end of the chapter, Thomas looks at me and he says, mom, that chapter was so long. And I’m like, yeah. But they had to set everything up. Right? They had to set who the characters were, and they had to set up the people. And you’re right. That was the hardest chapter. And I told him, like, just stick with it. The other chapters are not as long.

Pam Barnhill [00:08:27]:
And so now we’re not even 4 chapters in, but you can already see the difference in them as they listen. They’re getting way more into what we’re reading, you know, from chapters 2 to 4 than chapter 1 was hard.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:08:41]:
Yeah. And you don’t know the characters yet, so you’re not really invested in them yet, which is what the author needs to do in the first in the beginning of a new book, which is hard work too. But, like, it makes sense that by the time you’re a quarter or a halfway into To Kill a Mockingbird, your kids are heavily invested in what happens to Scout and all the people in the story. But but before that, it’s like you’re reading about somebody you don’t care about yet, so you didn’t have to make you care first.

Pam Barnhill [00:09:07]:
Okay. That’s so true. And it’s just, like, it never occurred to me to be a book quitter, but I think that might Yeah. No. Seriously. I think you’re right, though. I think that might be something that would actually help me read a little faster and just enjoy it more and consume more books because that’s something you know, I’m sitting here looking at my list of books I’ve read this year Uh-huh. And I’m really only at, like, 18 or 19.

Pam Barnhill [00:09:30]:
And I’m like, I should be reading more than that. I feel like I should be a more voracious reader than that. And, yeah, it’s just not happening.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:09:37]:
I think a big part of it is our resistance to quitting because we don’t wanna quit. We don’t wanna feel like we’re lazy. We don’t wanna feel like we’re quitting because what if it’s really good? That other person I love said it’s really good. But if you at least get your give yourself, like, my metric is, like, 25%, then I know I’m not quitting just because I’m, like, ugh.

Pam Barnhill [00:09:52]:
You know? Okay. So there was one book. There’s only been one book so far, but there was one book in book club that I just refused to read, and it was Demon Copperhead.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:10:02]:
Oh, yes.

Pam Barnhill [00:10:03]:
Did you read that one?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:10:04]:
I didn’t. I read the back and was like, that’s enough for me

Pam Barnhill [00:10:07]:
to know. That was me. And, normally, I will commit to book club books. You know? It’s like, even if I don’t and there have been a couple of others where I was like, you know, just I’m not so sure that I’d like spending time reading that one. Not many. You know? Yeah. But I did it. But that one, I was just like, I’m not gonna read that.

Pam Barnhill [00:10:25]:
Yeah. You know? And so it’s really bad when you’re the person who leads the discussion. Actually, it’s bad and it’s good. Yeah. Because then I can just go and ask questions. So I just took my last question.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:10:35]:
Well, if you haven’t read the book, actually, then your questions are really, like, from a curious point of view. Like, yeah, that’s can that can be really make for an intriguing conversation.

Pam Barnhill [00:10:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. But I it never occurred to me, like, maybe I should just start reading it, and then if I don’t because I and that is the thing. I really don’t know if I would have liked that book or not because I did never give it a chance. Yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:10:57]:
Yeah. Okay. So one other tip too if for people who are like, okay. Maybe I can start quitting on books, maybe. I know that I like to track what I’ve read, like, keep a reading log of what I’ve read, and it does feel a little bit, like, especially as a mother where you feel like so much of what you do never gets finished, and you’re like, but I’ve finished this 25%, and I want it to count. I put those books that I don’t finish on my reading log. I just put an x next to it. So I I my reading log is in my phone.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:11:24]:
I just use the notes app, but I have, like, I use a little red x and a d n which means DNF. That’s a name in the reading world. We call that a did not finish. Right? Did not finish. Yeah. And I just, yeah, DNF the books, but I still add them. Like, also, it kind of helps me remember 2 years later when I see it if I’m like, wait. Did I read that? Maybe I would like to read that, and I can kind of flip through my reading log and be like, oh, that’s right.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:11:46]:
A lot of times I’ll put a DNF and I’ll write why. Like, you know, it’s super slow or not my style or, like, way too creepy or too many swear words I couldn’t hang in there, you know, that kind of thing. Like, whatever it is that is your pet peeve while you’re reading or the thing that you just can’t hang with.

Pam Barnhill [00:12:03]:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That is so good. Okay. I’m gonna try that. I’m gonna try maybe 2025 is the year I become a book quitter And just see if that, like, you know, increases my pace and increases my enjoyment a little bit.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:12:15]:
But you know what else? Sorry. One other thought about that that I think is so helpful is it actually makes you more likely to read more, like, to try books that you aren’t sure you’re gonna love. Because I would be much more likely to try a book if I didn’t go, like, well, if I start that one, it has 450 pages. If I don’t like it, I’m stuck. Yeah. I’m gonna be way less likely to try books I’m not sure about ahead of time.

Pam Barnhill [00:12:38]:
Yeah. That is so true. Okay.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:12:39]:
I’m loving it. For this now.

Pam Barnhill [00:12:41]:
Okay. No. I’m loving it. This is great because it never occurred like, it just never occurred to me to let me do that. And I think there are probably a lot of people out there like me who are like, oh, if you start a book, you gotta finish it because you’re right. I am the mom. But, you know, I’ve done that with the boys. We were going to read And Then There Were None.

Pam Barnhill [00:12:58]:
Oh, yeah. You told me you read that Yeah. With one of your kids. And I was like and I had read it for something. I can’t remember what, but I had enjoyed it. I’m like, oh, I’m gonna read this with the boys. We got maybe 2 or 3 chapters in, and they were just like, no, mom. Not this one.

Pam Barnhill [00:13:15]:
And Yeah. And so I did. I stopped, and we went on and moved on to something else. But yeah. You’re right. Okay. We can do this. Alright.

Pam Barnhill [00:13:21]:
So let’s do, like, a little book break. K. Have you read The Wishing Game?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:13:28]:
The Wishing Game.

Pam Barnhill [00:13:29]:
Okay. So now I’m gonna have to look it up. It’s about a children’s author. Meg Shaver?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:13:35]:
I don’t think I’ve even heard I have not heard of this happiness. Okay. Tell me all the things.

Pam Barnhill [00:13:40]:
Okay. So it’s a children’s author and he stopped writing books. So he had this dramatic incident and he stopped writing books. K. But later, he has these 4 people that he had these 4 people who had read his books as children, and he brings them to his island and they have this contest where they’ve got to solve these clues. And, so it was just it was just a really delightful read. I loved it. So I

Sarah Mackenzie [00:14:05]:
have not heard of it, but I am definitely going to have this to my list because of

Pam Barnhill [00:14:08]:
So where do you find books? Because I really struggle because I don’t want now I do come to your book list, and I’ll print it out. Let’s see. The secret book of Floralee, that was one that I got from you this year. And let me see what else. I was Anastasia was another one that you told me about. So I do get some books from you, but, like, I’m out looking for books, and I struggle so much with finding books because seems like the book social media just they don’t recommend the kinds of books that I like.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:14:42]:
Yeah. That’s a that’s a thing. Yeah. I think it’s it’s tricky. And when you find someone who really gets your taste so, there is this bookseller. Her name is Avery Shelburne. Hi, Avery. If you happen to be listening to this, she is the book children’s book buyer at Fabled, which is a children’s bookstore in Waco, Texas, and she can nail my reading taste like nobody else.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:15:03]:
So I’ve been out to their bookstore twice for events. Both times, she sent me home with a stack of books that I hadn’t read before, and they’ve been a100 out of a 100. Like, they’re so like, I’m like, I don’t know how you do this actually, and you show me all these new books I’ve never heard of, and I love them so much. Because I feel like this is where book quitting will actually be helpful because even if you find something that you’re like, ugh, this isn’t a good fit, you don’t feel like you have to keep reading it.

Pam Barnhill [00:15:25]:
It. I just do

Sarah Mackenzie [00:15:25]:
a lot of I don’t think I get book recommendations on social media that often, but I am more likely to look on websites. And I read a lot of middle grade and children’s books because I’m reading for our book list of Read a Lottery Bible. So in that case, I’ll look at, like, redeemed reader. I’m trying to think of some of our other regular I mean, people are always sending me book recommendations, so I feel like I’m never short of ideas. For adult fiction, harder for me. It’s harder for me because I feel like I have, like, a just a very particular taste. Like, I don’t want open gratuitous open door scenes. I don’t want, like, a ton of swearing.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:16:01]:
Definitely don’t want anything horror related. Can’t have any kidnapping in it, and there can be no twin deaths. So just just a few things that I’m like I don’t do these things in books. But every once in a while, when I find, like, a new I love it when I find a new author, and I’m like, oh, I have to read everything by this author now. Oh, that doesn’t always work out as well as I’d like. Yeah. I just finished reading Impossible Creatures by Catherine Rundle. Have you heard of this?

Pam Barnhill [00:16:30]:
Is that the one? Oh, it it has, like, this bright colorful cover.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:16:34]:
Yes. Like an That Like

Pam Barnhill [00:16:36]:
orange dragon, I think, on it. Yes.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:16:38]:
Okay. So this one came out in the UK last year. Katherine Rundle is a pretty well known children’s book novelist in the UK, I guess, but, I hadn’t read any of her works before. This one just published in the US. It’s I would call it, like I’ve heard reviewers saying it’s like Narnia or Lord of the Rings. I don’t think that’s true. I would call it, like, a a Fablehaven by Brandon Mull meets The Giver by Lois Lowry. Like, if there is, like, it the if the essence of the book is at the very beginning, we find out there’s this whole world of the mythical creatures that have actually do exist.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:17:13]:
They just exist in this safe other world where the arc I always say this wrong. Archipelago. That’s how you say it. Right? Archipelago. Yeah. I also and there are guardians who are, like, keeping them safe from the world, the rest of the world. And it’s like an adventure story. I don’t know.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:17:31]:
I’m trying to think. That’s the Fable Haven part of it. It’s got all these mythical creatures, and they’re not really creatures that she made up out of nowhere. They’re, like, mythical creatures from historical texts or from, like Like, centaurs and things like that. Yeah. Yes. And sometimes she, like, puts her own little twist on them.

Pam Barnhill [00:17:51]:
Okay.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:17:51]:
There’s this hilarious Ratatosca. Like, that is a mean character, and I’m like, that’s really hilarious. Anyway, there’s, like the reason I say it meets the giver is because there’s, like, this philosophical question underneath it of, like, what is our role as humans as far as, like, sacrifice and self sacrifice and love? I read this book and was like, this book is so thoroughly Christian, but it’s way popular in the secular world right now. How but it had nothing over overtly Christian in it. It’s just very redemptive, like the story is. And there’s even an apple that plays pretty prominently symbolically in the book, and I’m like, there is this so, anyway, I go look it up and sure enough, she wrote this book, I guess, based on an unfinished epic poem of John Donne. And, like, and it’s a epic poem exploring the apple in the Garden of Eden. And it was I’m like, of course, this makes so much sense, but the book was actually, I could not put it down.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:18:46]:
My house was so clean that week because I listened to it on audio.

Pam Barnhill [00:18:50]:
Oh. I was, like, that doesn’t fit. When did it?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:18:53]:
Fit unless you’re listening to an audiobook, and then I’m just, like, looking around for other things to do because I don’t wanna turn it off. I just wanna go listen.

Pam Barnhill [00:19:00]:
Yeah. Right. So okay. So I have kids who love Fablehaven and like The Giver. So Yeah. Would it be good for them?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:19:07]:
Definitely. I would recommend it probably for, like, at least 10 and up, maybe maybe 12 and up kinda you know your own kids, but I would say if you’ve got anyone who’s listening, it’s like the same intensity level as the later Harry Potter books. So they call it a You book. I’m gonna read it out. Right now, I’m reading Harry Potter book with my twins, but when we’re done, I’m gonna read this one aloud with them because they’ll totally love it. But there is, like, intensity, darkness. It starts with a murder.

Pam Barnhill [00:19:36]:
Just, you know, one

Sarah Mackenzie [00:19:37]:
of those things. Yeah.

Pam Barnhill [00:19:38]:
Yeah. So yeah. You have like, your kids need to be able to handle the intensity of that kind

Sarah Mackenzie [00:19:42]:
of stuff. I wouldn’t read it with, like, a 6 year old.

Pam Barnhill [00:19:44]:
Right. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Okay. That does sound really good. Yeah.

Pam Barnhill [00:19:50]:
I would say trying to find adult books. Like, I Sorry. If I needed a kid’s book or a teen book or something, like, I know where I can go. It’s either you or a redeemed reader or somebody in our community is gonna suggest something or something like that. But, yeah, it’s the it’s the books for grown ups and wanting to get like, sometimes I just like to read about reading or I like to, like, listen to a podcast about reading or talk to somebody about reading. It is really difficult to find those places that I feel like where it’s a good fit for me.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:20:20]:
You know? Yeah. Because usually they’re either what I have found is either the pod those podcasts and about reading tend to be either about, like, classics, which are great if that’s what you want. Right. Or are about, like, some of these more popular fiction books that are coming out right now that are edgier than maybe I’m looking for. And I’m like, oh, where it’s so Susan Meisner is an author that I I feel like I recommend all the time because I’ve read everything she’s written so far, and I’ve loved all of them. And that’s really unusual for me with, like, any

Pam Barnhill [00:20:51]:
I’m reading one. Yes. Okay. Okay. The oh. Only the Beautiful. Only the Beautiful. That’s it.

Pam Barnhill [00:20:57]:
Yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:20:58]:
Pina Pina Bell. Oh my gosh. That book. Yes. Yeah. I love her stuff. And so then I’ll sometimes I’ll, like, go to her Instagram, for example. This is another way I find books.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:21:08]:
And I just see, like, what books is she recommending? Because if she’s writing books that I like, maybe the kind of books she’s reading, they’re not always sharing, but she actually does share books that she’s reading on her social media accounts. So that can be, like, another little rabbit trail that you, you know, follow. Yeah.

Pam Barnhill [00:21:25]:
I’ve I’ve even gotten to where, like, I’ll go to, like, Perplexity AI, which is, like, it’s a search engine, but it’s got a little bit of AI built into it. And I’ll do things like, if I love the Mitford series, you know, what else can I read?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:21:38]:
You

Pam Barnhill [00:21:38]:
know? And then see what kind of recommendations that it it pops up for me. There are so many books out there that we’ve never even seen before. Yeah. You know? And so

Sarah Mackenzie [00:21:49]:
You know, what would be interesting to do with something like perplexity is to put in, like, if I love the like, a whole bunch of different books that you love that are very different from each other. Like, I I did you ever read The Midnight Library by Matt Hayes?

Pam Barnhill [00:22:02]:
Yes. Mhmm.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:22:03]:
Okay. So, like, if you so I’m just thinking, like, the Mitford series. The Midnight Library, Only the Beautiful, like, a whole bunch of books that are very different. What are some books? I’d be curious to see what it would do because I bet it would come out with some pretty good recommendations based on It might. Mhmm.

Pam Barnhill [00:22:19]:
Yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:22:20]:
Because otherwise, what you can do I mean, if you just did, like, a regular old Google search and, like, books that are like At Home in Mitford, it kind of depends on what it’s gonna give you, whether it’s like, well, we think you like books that are about cozy cottage type stories or books that are set in a certain part of the world or books that have a clergyman as a main character. And that might not be the thing that you really love about it, but you might not even be able to put your finger on it. But if you name a whole bunch of different kinds of books, I wonder if it wouldn’t have an easier time than we would targeting what is it about all of these books that I really like that that would help you find more like try it. I’m gonna 100%

Pam Barnhill [00:22:56]:
try that.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:22:56]:
Okay. Tell me what tell me what it comes up with because I’ll be so curious to hear. Okay.

Pam Barnhill [00:23:00]:
Yeah. I’ll write as a prompt, and then we’ll we can put it in the show notes or whatever, and then you can just go in and fill in your your blanks. Because you could even tell it a couple of books that you really don’t like.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:23:08]:
Oh, yeah. Which popular. You and I used to have Yeah. Very different book. I feel like our book taste has gotten closer

Pam Barnhill [00:23:17]:
as we’ve gotten older. I thought about that as I was getting ready for this conversation, and it could be that they’ve gotten closer as we’ve gotten older. But I wonder too if it were just it was just a few different books, like, that were really popular at the time that we kind of, like, disagreed on. Yeah. And then that made me think, like, yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:23:35]:
We don’t

Pam Barnhill [00:23:36]:
want the same kinds of books.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:23:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I bet you’re right. If you put in some books that you really like and then not books that you don’t like or not books that have if there’s something that you just are like, I do not want any swearing, for example. If that’s something you don’t want in any of your reading, then you you know, I I bet it would probably get you a pretty good list. And if you’re willing to quit at 25%, you won’t feel too you know, too worried about just reading a few starting a few off of the list.

Pam Barnhill [00:24:02]:
I love it. I love it. Okay. So tell me a couple of things that you’ve read this year that you love, and then I’m gonna share a couple of things that I’ve read this year that I love. So

Sarah Mackenzie [00:24:10]:
Okay. I grabbed a couple off my shelf because I knew we were gonna probably talk about books. Have you read this one? This is by John Acuff, All It Takes is a Goal. I have not. Okay. Another one that I listened to on audio, but then I loved it so much I bought the hardback. Actually, I think I own it in every format. I think I own the Kindle as well.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:24:27]:
I was surprised by how much I loved this one, and I can’t even remember why I picked it up. I wasn’t in a goal setting mood when I picked it up, so that’s not why. But he has this one exercise right at the beginning of this book called creating a best moments list, and he talks about how it’s really hard if someone was to say, like, what do you want your future to look like? Imagine the best future you can and try and build toward that life. Right? It’s really hard for us to do that because we’re literally creating a fantasy. Like, it’s just like so he says instead, why don’t you think about, like, in the last 10 years, what are some of your moments where you’re like, you those are some of your best moments. They can be big, like, oh, when a baby was born or when somebody graduated or something. But they could also be little moments like that one day that it was raining and I got I sat in bed all done in red. I don’t know.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:25:16]:
I mean, I’m just going mother, whoever did that, but, you know, it could be a little thing like, oh, when

Pam Barnhill [00:25:21]:
I was taking the kids on a

Sarah Mackenzie [00:25:22]:
walk and that snake slithered across the path. That was kind of fun. That was, like, one of those days that you’re like, oh my gosh. That was so cool. That kind of thing. Right? Yeah. And then you use that list to kind of build out, like, oh, how do we get more of those best things into our future? It just felt very instantly applicable. So I remember listening to this audiobook in the car.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:25:43]:
And then when I got to my destination, I opened up my phone, and I opened up a notes app, and I just started listing a best moments list like, best moments for myself in the last month. And I was just surprised at, like, oh, it’s like a gratitude list kind of except it I was thinking that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s almost just, like, just nuanced a little bit that it felt a little more effective for me than a typical gratitude list as far as, like, helping me then see things that I, like, could be in the moment and be like, oh, yeah. This is one of those best moments. Like, I guess maybe helping me to be in the present more than I am.

Pam Barnhill [00:26:15]:
I love it.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:26:15]:
I love it. Right? I like that one. Yes. I interviewed him on my podcast actually because I loved it so much. And then this one is my new favorite. Have you seen this one at all?

Pam Barnhill [00:26:25]:
I don’t think I have.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:26:26]:
Okay. It’s brand new. The Myth Makers, The Remarkable Fellowship of CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien. This one is by John Hendricks. So he has done this is a graphic novel, first of all, you should know, for, I think, technically, they’re saying it’s for older middle grade, like, so for, like, 10 to 14 year olds. I would I would say it’s great for, like, 13, 14, and up. I mean, I think your 11 year old could read it. There’s nothing inappropriate in it, but the whole first part of the book, he is describing what the difference is between a fairy tale and a story.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:27:03]:
Why do they matter? What what’s different about them? And it’s very philosophical, but it’s brilliant. Then he tells the story of Tolkien and Lewis’s friendship, and it’s done in as a graphic novel that I really absolutely devoured in 2 days. It also has this really kind of fun choose your own own adventure feel to it. So let me see if I can find one of them. There is parts of it where he’s, for example, like, describing the history of myth. That’s what it is. I’m sorry. It’s the difference between fairy tale and myth and stories.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:27:32]:
Okay. Yep. And he’s talking about the history of myth. Here we go. And then he says, like, you get to the bottom of this page and it’s like the roots of myth. If you wanna learn more about the roots of myth, turn to this portal. It’s like a portal, and you take it to the back, and he goes into, like, in-depth about the roots of myth, or you coulda just kept going on. So it’s like there’s layers upon layers.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:27:53]:
My only complaint is that I am getting old, and this print is very small.

Pam Barnhill [00:28:00]:
Okay. So I bought myself a new e reader this year for that very reason.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:28:07]:
I think that font as big as you can.

Pam Barnhill [00:28:09]:
Make that font as big as you can make it. Yes. Yes. Because large print books are really big and then, you know Yes. Not as available and you have to go find them and and all of that stuff. So then it’s really small. While you’re

Sarah Mackenzie [00:28:22]:
reading carrying them around reading them. Yes.

Pam Barnhill [00:28:25]:
Because you see, like, I have these all the

Sarah Mackenzie [00:28:28]:
time now. Yes. Mine are right here. Right.

Pam Barnhill [00:28:31]:
In front of me.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:28:33]:
And then the worst part is I can’t really see very well far away with them. Yes.

Pam Barnhill [00:28:37]:
But then

Sarah Mackenzie [00:28:37]:
I end up putting them on my nose like this, and my husband is like, I can’t. You’re not allowed to read anymore if

Pam Barnhill [00:28:42]:
that’s what it’s gonna

Sarah Mackenzie [00:28:43]:
that’s what’s gonna happen to you.

Pam Barnhill [00:28:45]:
So John and I are doing oh, it’s the Lucille Van Paine book, The Lively Art of Writing. And I didn’t know that one. Oh, it is fabulous. It is so fabulous. Like, I like, this one, like, I think every high schooler should do. It was the writing book I used when I was a senior in high school.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:29:01]:
Oh, you did tell me about this before. Okay.

Pam Barnhill [00:29:04]:
Yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:29:04]:
K.

Pam Barnhill [00:29:04]:
No. But, like, I went searching through Amazon to see if I could find a different edition. Like, it’s like this really thin, like, mass market paperback, and you open it up in a like, maybe 9 point type or something. Why? You know, like, crammed really close together. It’s horrible.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:29:21]:
Yeah. They didn’t believe in, like, generous line height back in the day or nice large margins.

Pam Barnhill [00:29:28]:
None of that stuff. It is horrible. So, yes, I totally totally feel you. Okay. So I’m gonna give you a couple and maybe you’ve read them, maybe you haven’t. So 84 Charing Cross Road.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:29:40]:
Love love love that book.

Pam Barnhill [00:29:42]:
Maybe the best book I’ve read all year.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:29:44]:
Just Wow. Okay. Awesome.

Pam Barnhill [00:29:46]:
I mean, it was I I really, really, really loved it. And then we read West with Giraffes.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:29:51]:
I’ve never heard of this.

Pam Barnhill [00:29:52]:
Okay. So this one is about it’s a true story. There were these giraffes that were sent to the San Diego Zoo, but they got caught in this storm. And so they landed in New York after this hurricane, and so they had to put them on a truck. This is in the Great Depression. And take them across the country, such a good book. Loved that book.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:30:11]:
It has a million excellent ratings, I’m seeing.

Pam Barnhill [00:30:14]:
Yes. Okay. So Really, really loved that one. And then oh, The Boys in the Boat. We read

Sarah Mackenzie [00:30:22]:
that one

Pam Barnhill [00:30:23]:
for the Olympics this summer, and that was What

Sarah Mackenzie [00:30:25]:
a great book to read right before the Olympics. Yes. I love that one too.

Pam Barnhill [00:30:28]:
Yeah. So that one was really good. And then a a slight a different book, The Women

Sarah Mackenzie [00:30:33]:
Oh, yeah.

Pam Barnhill [00:30:33]:
Which is Kristin Hannah. Hannah. That was the one that was set in Vietnam, which was so refreshing because every other book is set in World War 2.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:30:42]:
World War 2. I was gonna talk about that. We need to talk about World War 2 novel fatigue.

Pam Barnhill [00:30:46]:
It’s it’s a real thing.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:30:48]:
It’s a real I love World War 2 historical novels. There’s a trend right now for World War 2 historical novels that are very bookish, like libraries and reading. And I love so many of them, and I’m also, like, I gotta read something else now because yeah.

Pam Barnhill [00:31:05]:
Please just give me something else to read. Totally. 100%. I’m putting

Sarah Mackenzie [00:31:09]:
all of these books on my TBR that you’re mentioning.

Pam Barnhill [00:31:11]:
Yeah. We read 450 from Paddington, which is a Agatha Christie book, but it’s one of her later miss Marple books. Oh. It was so strange because it was almost like a completely different author than and then

Sarah Mackenzie [00:31:27]:
there were none. Really?

Pam Barnhill [00:31:28]:
I had to go look it up. Like, did they have somebody else write her book? So she published this one in the fifties. And and anything I could find was like, no. It was her. But the writing style was just so different. I ended up enjoying the book okay. Okay. It was I would not I don’t run out and get it unless you just absolutely love Agatha Christie and you wanna read all of her books.

Pam Barnhill [00:31:52]:
But it was so interesting to me how different the writing style was from her earlier stuff.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:31:59]:
Hearing you talk about Charing Cross Road, because that that book is epistolary, like, you know, all told through letters. Have you read anything by Katharine Ray, like dear mister Knightly? No. For example? Okay. So this one was recommended to me by our mutual friend, Gretchen, and it’s it it’s like a it was a touch cheesy at times, I would say, but I still loved it, and

Pam Barnhill [00:32:24]:
I still read the whole thing.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:32:25]:
It’s an epistolary novel, and it’s kind of a take on it’s like I don’t know if you ever read Daddy Long Legs by Jean Webster. It’s like an old classic epistolary novel. This is like a like a updated, like, modern version, but it’s she’s got lots of, like, Jane Austen references in there. It’s contemporary. I’m looking at my notes about it because I was right. When I have an a book that I love enough that I know I’m probably gonna recommend it, I start making myself notes so I don’t forget, like, yeah, what was that about or why did I love it? I

Pam Barnhill [00:32:54]:
wrote this book for me.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:32:56]:
Version of a reading journal. Right? That’s my version of a reading journal. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I can actually show you. Here’s an example. This is an entry from so, again, this is just in my notes app.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:33:06]:
I don’t do anything fancy. Can you see that okay? Yep. Yep. Okay. So I don’t do anything fancy in mind because it needs to be easy and quick or I will not log them because I don’t wanna if it’s, like, a cumbersome process, I am not interested in then, like, doing it. So I just found that I quit logging if it’s complicated. So this is super simple. So I have one folder in my notes app that’s called reading log.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:33:29]:
And then inside that folder, I have many folders, 2023, 2024, 2025 will have one. Right? Like, all the different years have one. And then in there, each title gets a note, and I have a couple of emojis that I tend to use. Star means, like, excellent recommended everywhere, and this little green notebook is what I use to remind myself, like, you can recommend this on Read Aloud Revival, because there’s sometimes that I love a book, but it’s not a great fit for read aloud revival. So I just put the green book to remind myself, like, you can recommend this one there. All I log is the title, the author, the date, and I put just the month and the year that I finished it. I don’t, like, put anything more specific. And then if I’m gonna recommend it for people, I make some notes.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:34:08]:
So on this one, for dear mister Knightly, I have RER, Jane Austen enthusiast, Audrey, my oldest daughter. So sometimes I put specific people. And then I rate it out of 5 stars. Now I never share star ratings publicly because I know way too many authors. I would be so stressed out about someone seeing, like, a 3 and a half star or something from me. But I do rate them for my own self, so I remember, do I should I exuberantly recommend this or just, like, hey, you might wanna check out this book kind of recommendation?

Pam Barnhill [00:34:38]:
But sometimes you also recommend with caveats too. So Yes. Definitely.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:34:42]:
Yeah. And I would put that in here. If there was, like, language, I’d be, like, heads up for language or whatever that thing is. Yeah. And then my codes are just for myself. K means Kindle, a b means audiobook. It’s just I’m trying to remind myself if there’s any middle grade, I’ll put m g. You know, like, if it is it a kid’s book? Is it an adult book? And then any quick things that I wanna write.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:35:00]:
So on this one, for those people who can’t see, it just says, this was a fun, easy, light hearted read. Maybe a touch cheesy at times, but I enjoyed it all the same. Strong Christian themes and lots of bookishness. Not high enough literary value for a momma book club because I picked books for a book club at our Read A Lot Revival community, and I’m always trying to choose something that has especially good language. So I didn’t think the language was, like, enough for a mama book club, but could definitely be read.

Pam Barnhill [00:35:23]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:35:24]:
Yeah. So that’s that this is what I do for every book, and I can show you, DNF ones to see if I can

Pam Barnhill [00:35:33]:
I don’t know? Do you wanna admit to Yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:35:34]:
Maybe not. I’m looking at some of my notes on these and they’re a little harsh because nobody sees these. So I, like, let myself really yeah. You know what? I don’t think I’ll share one of those. But it does have an x for the, emoji that I give myself, like so I can quickly, like, scan through my notes and see in the title. It’ll say, like, if there’s, like, a star, I know it’s, like, a really good or an x. You know, if it’s an open book emoji, that means I’m in the middle of reading it. So I’ve got these little things in there really just for myself because your reading journal or whatever way that you track your reading, if you want to track your reading, needs to be something that you’ll do often and that you, like, it serves you.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:36:12]:
Like, it doesn’t really need to be for anybody else. It just kinda needs to be for yourself.

Pam Barnhill [00:36:15]:
Right. Love it. Okay. So one of the things I really wanna talk to you about, we talked about everything but Yeah. Was reading challenges.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:36:22]:
So Oh, yeah. Yes.

Pam Barnhill [00:36:24]:
What is your take on reading challenges? Because they’re such a big thing. Like, everybody’s got these reading challenges out there. I have thoughts. So I wanna hear what yours were.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:36:34]:
Yeah. I’m so curious to hear your thoughts. Okay. Personality wise, I don’t do especially well with reading challenges for a couple of reasons. One is that as soon as I get assigned something to read, I have this inner rebel that’s like, that’s the last thing on the face of the planet I wanna read now, even if I assigned it to myself. And so I just wanna read like, I just wanna pick up something. I have a long TBR list, which I also keep in my notes app, to be read for anybody who’s not familiar with that term. So it’s not like I’m not collecting books I want to read, but I just don’t want to be told this

Pam Barnhill [00:37:06]:
is the book I have to read right now. Even by yourself?

Sarah Mackenzie [00:37:08]:
Even by myself. Yeah. It’s a weird now we all know why I homeschool my children. My rebel is very strong.

Pam Barnhill [00:37:14]:
We’re all control freaks. Like, don’t let anybody tell you different. I mean

Sarah Mackenzie [00:37:19]:
That’s so true. I usually am kind of interested in the challenges that are, like, read this many classics or a book from this period of time or something, like, a little o more open ended that has you, like, reading broadly. They always appeal to me, but I don’t find myself I think I’ve just noticed for myself, I read more, and I have a better reading year when I’m not trying to, like, get to a certain number, and that’s oftentimes what challenges are. Like, can you read a 100 books this year? Then I find myself only choosing short books, definitely not quitting books because it doesn’t get me closer to my goal. So I don’t do super well with challenges, but I know lots of people love them.

Pam Barnhill [00:38:05]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think the ones that are appealing okay. So let me tell you my take on challenges. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love to plan challenges.

Pam Barnhill [00:38:14]:
I never finish them.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:38:16]:
Oh, this fits, I think, for you because, like, of course, you would like to plan.

Pam Barnhill [00:38:22]:
I’d like to, like, do all the research and all the planning and everything, but I never feel compelled to finish what I plan because for me, the joy comes in the planning. And then there’s gonna be, like, so many books that I pick out from that and just really, really love, and the rest of it, I just let go. It’s kinda like me planning homeschooling. I know. The planning is the best part,

Sarah Mackenzie [00:38:44]:
actually.

Pam Barnhill [00:38:44]:
Well, I mean, that’s the best part. I yes. And I have no problem with all the stuff we don’t get to. It’s not time wasted. I enjoy the planning. Yes. So that’s that’s kind of how I feel with the challenges. I will say that the ones I think that appeal most to me so there is this website that I follow, and you can’t like, I can’t recommend like, you, like, go out and get all of their books, but it’s book girls guide.

Pam Barnhill [00:39:06]:
So they have a website. And so usually I’ll pick and sometimes they have something like, you know, cozy mysteries for the month of November, and I’m like, I can read that in the bathtub. And they recommend different books. And usually, you know, they’ll tell you if there’s something in there that you’re like, yeah, I’m not gonna like that. But they do things like read through the decades or, like, read one book from every state, and then they give you these long extensive lists of, like, books from every state or something like

Sarah Mackenzie [00:39:33]:
that. Yeah.

Pam Barnhill [00:39:34]:
Yeah. So that’s totally fun to go and, like, say, oh. But I’ve never formally sat down and said, okay. You know, this year and I think you could even do it, like, over the next 3 years. I’m gonna try to fill in this state map and, like, color in a book from every state

Sarah Mackenzie [00:39:50]:
or something.

Pam Barnhill [00:39:51]:
Okay. So saying it

Sarah Mackenzie [00:39:52]:
that way actually makes me think, like yeah. So if I was to say, I’m gonna do a challenge where I’m trying to read a book for 7 each state or something. One of my book choices a month is gonna be part of that challenge. That I think I could get on board with, but I want the ability and the freedom to, like when someone tells me, you have to read this book or if I’m wandering in a bookstore and I’m like, oh my gosh. I didn’t know this book existed. I have to read it. I don’t want it to then have to go on my stack. I wanna be able to read it, like, next if that’s what I wanna read.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:40:20]:
You know what I mean? Yeah.

Pam Barnhill [00:40:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I even think, like, trying to do it, like, saying, okay. Because that would probably feel too limiting to me to say one book a month has got to be.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:40:29]:
Okay. Yeah.

Pam Barnhill [00:40:30]:
Satisfies it. I think just like leaving it open ended. And then when I color in all the states, I’m colored in all the states, and that’s really great. And then if I’m like, oh, I don’t know what I’m gonna read, which even sometimes when you’re staring at a TBR list, because I have a pretty big one as well, none of it is appealing. Okay.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:40:50]:
So I do this thing where I tend to for everything that’s on my TBR list, I tend to get this sample from Kindle, which I don’t know if everybody knows you can do. So you can go, you know, any I have a Kindle. I do a lot of my reading on my Kindle. You can get the sample of pretty much any book that’s on Amazon, and it’ll give you, like, the first chapter or something. And I almost always get a sample before I buy a book or before I start reading a book because like I said, like, you can kind of tell pretty quickly, do I wanna keep reading this one or not? There was a day in the last month where I had I went through, like, 8 samples on my Kindle in 1 night, and I was like, the world isn’t making anything worth reading. I was so frustrated. It was. I landed on something after that.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:41:29]:
It was fine. I got over my moment. But it was it is kind of helpful then to go, okay. Like you said, I’m gonna do these I I wanna read through the states, and I don’t know how long it’s gonna take me. I might there might be one beach vacation where I read a whole bunch. Mhmm. And there might be a whole 3 months where I don’t read anything on this list, but I’m still working on it. Like, I’m I’m still, you know, I’m keeping my eye on that list or something.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:41:53]:
I like that.

Pam Barnhill [00:41:53]:
I could get into a challenge like that. Yeah. Yeah. And then you could just keep adding books, like, on your TBR, and then you could, like, mark them and say, like, this would fit for this state or whatever. So I don’t know. That seems way more fun to me than, like, I’m gonna read a certain number of books this year, or I’m gonna set up these categories and read these books in these categories or

Sarah Mackenzie [00:42:11]:
Yes.

Pam Barnhill [00:42:12]:
Or something like that. Yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:42:13]:
Yeah. Interesting. I like that. I also think sometimes I need more of it’s something like a challenge probably to read, like, a hard book or a long book or an old book, even if it’s not particularly hard, but it’s long. Like, David David Copperfield is a book that I had started and quit on multiple times, not because I wasn’t enjoying it, but it’s like a 40 hour book on Audible, and it’s, like, so long. And so but then I quit. I fizzle out on it, and then I don’t pick it up for a while, and I can’t remember what was happening. So I’m like, well, I gotta start it back over because I don’t know what’s going on.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:42:47]:
And I wonder if I wasn’t, like, hey. This is just, like, the big book I’m trying to read this year, so that I could read it, like, over a longer period of time. Like, instead of saying I’m not reading anything else, I’m reading David Copperfield, so every time I read, I feel like I have to pick up my classic. Right. Instead having a couple books going where you’re like, I am reading I’m trying to read, like, a little bit from David Copperfield most weeks. I’m trying to do that. Not necessarily every week, but

Pam Barnhill [00:43:11]:
Plus most you know, you’ve taught me that. Most is better than, you know, trying for perfection. To hit. True. Yeah. It’s true. Yeah. 100%.

Pam Barnhill [00:43:20]:
Awesome. Well, Sarah, tell everybody what new exciting things because you guys do have something new and exciting. You have a couple of things, but a middle grades novel, right, coming from yeah.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:43:31]:
Yeah. So at Read Aloud Revival, we started a publishing house called Waxwing Books, and we’re making books that we think are great read alouds for a wide variety of ages. So our first books were all picture books, and we have a new one coming out this January that’s really funny and darling called Dear Duck, Please Come, about a rabbit who lost his tooth and sends his friend, Duck, a note letting him know, and his duck realizes, oh my gosh. A good friend thing to do would be to find his tooth if he lost it. And so he spends the whole book trying to find it. But we also have our 1st middle grade novel coming out, which is a middle grade fantasy. And if you’re not familiar with the term middle grade, it actually usually means 8 to 12 year olds. That’s, like, the ideal reader for a middle grade novel is 8 to 12.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:44:12]:
But we love the whole family read alouds. So this one is a fantasy novel that you could read aloud with everybody from even if your 4 year old’s in the room to your 18 year old’s in the room. There’ll be something. What I particularly love about this novel written by Millie Florence, who is homeschooled herself, in fact, and is a young author, is that the book really offers something for everybody. So it’s a fairy tale. I think a 8 year old is gonna hear a different story than the 14 year old and different than you will as a 40 year old because there’s just a there’s some deeper themes going on about what the darkness might mean. Kind of like if you were to read Snow White with a 4 year old and an 8 year old and a 25 year old, they’re gonna hear something different. It’s that kind of story that has, like, that layered which is what fairy tales do.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:44:58]:
So we’re very, very excited. That one comes out January 7th. And, actually, you said this podcast airs before then. December. Yeah. Yeah. Great. So we have a kind of a fun thing going on right now that if you preorder Beyond Mulberry Glen, which is the title of it, before its release date on January 7th, we’ll send some bookmarks, bookmark, a, sticker sheet, and a signed book plate by the author to everybody who orders it before that date.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:45:23]:
So that’s really fun.

Pam Barnhill [00:45:24]:
So fun preorder bonus for that one and also, the Duck and the Rabbit book coming out. Yes. And tell me the name of that one again, Duck, Come Come.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:45:33]:
Dear Duck, Please Come.

Pam Barnhill [00:45:34]:
Okay. And then we have we have this is a 2025

Sarah Mackenzie [00:45:37]:
is a big year for Waxman. We have 4 books coming out. So we have 2 more coming out later in the year. And, yeah, we’re very excited. We’ve got some big exciting things happening right around the corner. So it’s been a lot of work behind the scenes, but in 2025 or, yeah, in 2025, it’s gonna be like look like it’s all coming out at the same time, but it’s we’ve just been working on it for years.

Pam Barnhill [00:45:56]:
So Kinda like that duck. You just like you’re floating along on top of those little feet are just really going underneath the underneath the water.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:46:04]:
I love it. That’s

Pam Barnhill [00:46:06]:
so awesome. And you can find all of that at Waxwing Books or ReadAloudRevival.com. Go over and get those. We’ll link to the mama book list for you so you can go over and sign up for those. And also check out Read Aloud Revival, the membership, because that’s where that reading retreat is going to be in January. And if you’ve been just a little ho and blah on your reading, I can 100% speak for the fact that this one will light a fire under you and get your reading life going again as a mom. So thanks, Sarah, for coming.

Sarah Mackenzie [00:46:36]:
Aw. Has some good music to my ears. Thanks so much, Pam.

Pam Barnhill [00:46:40]:
That’s our show for today. Be sure to follow, subscribe, and leave a review so you never miss out on the wonder of homeschooling better together. To stay connected and learn even more about the Homeschooling Better Together resources and to join our free community, visit hsbtpodcast.com. Until next week, keep stepping out of the overwhelm and into the wonder.