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In this episode, discover practical strategies to combat burnout in your homeschool with Pam Barnhill and co-hosts, Ali Madej and Meg Angelino. You will gain valuable insight on using Morning Time and other tools to engage your children during times of curriculum fatigue, seasonal illness, new baby, or overall burnout. 

This candid conversation acknowledges the natural ebbs and flows in the homeschooling journey and the importance of extending grace to both parents and children during periods of burnout. The team offers practical insights into managing grading and striking a balance between pleasurable learning and skill subjects.

Tune in to Your Morning Basket Podcast and start your journey towards a more intentional and joyful homeschooling approach today.

Pam Barnhill [00:00:04]:
Are you ready for homeschooling to feel joyful again? Do you wanna build closer relationships, remove some of the stress around planning, and enjoy learning with your children? Welcome to Your Morning Basket. I’m Pam Barnhill, a homeschool mom just like you, and I’m going to show you the magic and fulfillment that morning basket or morning time can bring to your homeschool. Grab your coffee or tea, and let’s get started. So I am joined today, and we’re gonna be talking about such a fun topic. I’m joined today by two members of the Your Morning Basket Time. Meg Angelino, our Operations Manager, is here with me today, and then miss Ali Madej, who is our Member Liaison, she’s also here as well. And so welcome, ladies. Thanks so much for coming on and talking to me about a topic that’s just really timely for this part of the year.

Meg Angelino [00:01:04]:
Thank you for having me, Pam.

Pam Barnhill [00:01:06]:
Yeah. Okay. So let’s just dive right into this idea of burnout. Let’s talk about how you know when you might be experiencing some burnout in your homeschool. And I’ll start just by saying one of the ways that I know I’m experiencing burnout is I just don’t want to do school. That’s just a period where I am struggling to motivate myself To even get started during the day. And that’s when I know I need to take some different action because I’m a master procrastinator anyway. I don’t know if if you would have thought that about me, but I really am.

Pam Barnhill [00:01:48]:
And so, like, I can find very creative and productive ways to procrastinate on actually, I was doing it this morning, Meg, Well, I was supposed to be recording that podcast, and I was coming up with all kinds of new ideas for the community and sending them to Meg. So that’s how that’s how I know I’m getting burned out is I procrastinate. What about you, Ali?

Ali Madej [00:02:11]:
So I have the same thing. Feeling like I don’t wanna start the school day. And, also, you know, on top of that, just a decrease in that excitement and motivation that I have maybe at the start of the year. I just start to see it kinda dwindling down or going down a downward slope and starting to just simply go through the motions. So those are things I noticed that I maybe wanna change and get back some of that excitement. And then also that it’s a pattern. Right? If it’s just one day, I think we all have one day where we still wanna do school. But if it’s a pattern over the course of a week or a couple of weeks, then I know it’s burnout.

Pam Barnhill [00:02:50]:
Okay. So, you said something. And before we let Meg talk, you said something that I really wanna touch in on. our school year does have these natural rhythms. Right? Like, there’s all this excitement and kind of what we call the honeymoon phase where everybody’s, like, super Super excited to be back in August or September. Just happy to be morning, and we really should not expect to maintain that intensity throughout the whole year? So what’s the difference between just those natural rhythms of intensity and actually experiencing burnout? Do you guys think there is a difference?

Meg Angelino [00:03:29]:
I do, actually, think there is a difference. And It’s not a small one, though it can be sneaky. Um, I definitely get time, I don’t wanna do school, and it’s more than just a day, but it’s sometimes it almost feels like dread. Like, I can’t do this. And I find that not only when I’m reaching burnout level, not only do I have that feeling with school, I have that with multiple, like, places in my life. And, and I think that there’s a real danger In that not in, maybe physical sense, but, like, just, you know, it well, I mean, it can be because it can lead to things like, you know, illness, like getting really sick because you’re not taking care of yourself the way you need to because you’re in that that place of burnout.

Pam Barnhill [00:04:31]:
Oh, that’s interesting. It’s interesting to think how homeschool burnout can be related to, you know, just the idea of not taking care of yourself. And I’ll just let you guys in on a little secret. We’re recording this the week between Christmas and New Year, and I find that this week for me is usually either super productive Or it’s super not, and this year, I’m having one of those super not, you know. And I can physically feel it, and I can see myself not taking care of myself, which is so ironic because for Christmas, you know, I got a walking pad and I got, Like, you know, get a water bottle and all of this stuff. You’re like, oh, you’re really gonna take care of yourself in the new year, and I got all these great things for Christmas to help me do that. And I’m just not doing it at all because of that kind of feeling of blah that I’m experiencing. And I think too, physically, we can see you know, burnout is not necessarily depression, but we could totally see that with how one could bleed to the other.

Meg Angelino [00:05:38]:
Right. And, Your know, I I think with burnout well, We always talk about how homeschooling should bleed, like, into our lives or does naturally bleed into our lives, like, with with our kids, time, when they’re learning, they’re learning not just in our school hours, but they’re also learning when or cooking or when we’re out shopping or whatever. There that the learning flows into our natural time. And I think that even when it comes to burnout and for mom, it’s the same thing. It’s that burnout in our homeschool can lead to Burnout in other areas in our life, and it kind of all kind of bleeds together and, can lead to Explorations in other aspects besides just our homeschooling.

Pam Barnhill [00:06:32]:
Yeah. It’s really hard to separate, Your know, homeschooling from the other parts of our our Time, and I do think it happens. And then, You know, there’s also this time of year. I keep telling my husband, like, the solstice has passed. So every day, each day is getting just a little longer. We’re gonna have just a little more sunshine. But I do think one of the reasons It’s why February is such a hard time for homeschoolers is because of that lack of sunshine, and it’s just so much more difficult to be outside.

Meg Angelino [00:07:05]:
Absolutely. Vitamin d actually plays a very big role in not just our Well-being, like our health, but also in our moods and can lead to feelings like Depression. Not necessarily actually depression, but feels like depression when it’s actually just a vitamin d deficiency because we just haven’t been outside enough.

Pam Barnhill [00:07:29]:
Yeah. Your know, it’s interesting because I just, because of just some like, I was sick Not too long ago. And I’m like, you know what? It’s like, my body will flush out any vitamin d it doesn’t need. But I think for a few weeks Ali least, I’m gonna double up on my you know? Because I take d and then I take b12 every day. That’s the two that my doctor said I need to take. And so I’ve just been doubling up on the d, and I’m like, it’s not gonna hurt. Cheap. You know? And it my body will just flush out what I don’t what I don’t need, but I wanna, like, give myself all the help that I could possibly get.

Pam Barnhill [00:08:05]:
So and, Ali, you’re a nutritionist. So, you have any insights into.

Ali Madej [00:08:09]:
I was I was gonna say Your probably can’t overdo it in the short term because, clinically, when patients would come in vitamin d deficient in the hospital, they would give a pretty high dose, intravenously. So I think that taking a little bit extra in the winter is a good idea, Especially because the mounted the mind is so powerful. When you start moving into some self doubt, like we were saying about homeschool, It can also make you feel, you know, helpless, defeated, or withdrawing in so many different areas. So if we can combat it with a little bit more time outside With vitamin d supplement, you can get it from egg yolk to vitamin d is a tough one though to get from a lot of foods, so that’s why supplementation’s recommended, especially in the wintertime.

Pam Barnhill [00:08:53]:
Okay. So we’ve started this episode off, and, yes, it is probably the most depressing episode ever up to this point. But we are here to offer a solution today because we really do think one of the things you can do when you’re experiencing burnout in your homeschooling. And and I am a big proponent of okay. If I’m feeling blah, if I’m feeling burned out, if I’m feeling down, I’m going to do something about it, whether it’s just doubling my vitamin d dose. Even if that’s a placebo to think, okay. I’m doing something Your, You know, I’ll I’ll figure something out. I’ll come up with some little mini challenge for myself or something for me to do To, like, knock myself out of this burnout? Because it is burnout.

Pam Barnhill [00:09:38]:
It’s not depression. That’s a totally different thing. So I’m gonna come up with something to knock myself out of this burnout. And so the solution we’re gonna offer you today to consider is morning time is a great tool for beating burnout in your homeschool? So, ladies, what do you think about that?

Ali Madej [00:09:59]:
Well, I think when I think ahead so we’ll start school, and I don’t wanna pick a day right now. But the the part that always gets Meg, okay, I can do this, is just start with morning time. Because I know that’s what I’ve missed, and I’m missing it every morning at breakfast right now. And it’s as simple as I just miss sitting with us altogether, saying a prayer or listening to a song and actually just having a good read aloud that we’re all into. If if I think about starting that, actually, any day in January, even January 1st, It doesn’t stress me out as much as thinking about planning or adding all the other subjects, back into. So I think having morning time as something to look forward to. And if you start with just that, it kinda breaks the burnout.

Pam Barnhill [00:10:45]:
Okay. Meg, do you ever use morning Time, like, just do morning time for a a period of burnout?

Meg Angelino [00:10:51]:
Less now than I did when my children were younger since I have middle schoolers now, but at the same time, it is a great tool to just, like, hunker down and say, okay. Like, We need to just do something and just get started. Like, half the battle is just getting started. And I would much rather start my morning with prayer and a read aloud and bible and maybe a fun song or art or I don’t know. Something like that other than math. I don’t want to do math. I don’t want to do a lab. I don’t want to do, some of those things that are just a little bit

Pam Barnhill [00:11:35]:
Correct the writing paper with the kid.

Meg Angelino [00:11:37]:
Right. That that my kids are a little more resistant towards where it takes a little more effort on my part to motivate them, that there might be some duelling is that we have talked about in, in some of our private conversations, you know, over, like, the the, getting started. Like

Pam Barnhill [00:12:00]:

Meg Angelino [00:12:01]:
That instead, I want to start with Something that is pleasurable for both myself and my children. And I will get less pushback from them, And it just makes that kind of entry a little bit smoother and a little easier. And if if it just needs to be that for a week, At least I can count it as something being done instead of feeling guilty for not getting anything done.

Pam Barnhill [00:12:30]:
Yeah. Okay. Well, let’s talk about that was because that was kind of my next question is, really, how long can you do just morning time if you’re in a season of burnout? And I I would I have an opinion because, you know, me, I always have opinions, but I would love to hear what you ladies have to say.

Ali Madej [00:12:50]:
So I think that well, listen. Doing something instead of nothing is definitely better, number 1. For me, I think I would feel comfortable if we’re saying just morning time with no skill subjects, but I think you can also fit them in. maybe Time a week of that and then getting back into a rhythm. But there is also a way to slowly sneak in The skill subjects too. Like, we often talk about morning Time, which is content, history, and geography. But But if you’re really feeling like you just wanna all be at the table together and and the kids are younger, there are ways to sneak in grammar and spelling together, Even reading Time of Fred for a period of time or just working on math facts, then I think you can feel comfortable doing it for a pretty long season. Like, Even after a baby’s born for a while of just morning time, almost as Time your leave or your break until Slowly stepping it back up into

Pam Barnhill [00:13:48]:
You know, that’s interesting you say that because we don’t think about a period after a baby’s Born as being a period of burnout. But when you if you were to, like like, write all the characteristics of burnout on a page and then in Another column write all the characteristics of a period after a baby’s born on a page. Oh, how similar would they be? You know? Very much so.

Meg Angelino [00:14:13]:
Prolonged illness too. Like, I mean, it doesn’t even have to be a baby. If mom gets really sick, it It can be the same or need surgery or I mean, there’s a lot of life things that have that same effect. A big move can also be a like, such a trigger for that that burnout feeling And to be able to give yourself grace and say, this is my goal. For a month, we’re doing morning time only. We’re gonna sneak in those math facts. We’re gonna do, morning time, and that’s it. I think it’s okay.

Meg Angelino [00:14:53]:
And, You know, if it really comes down to it when you have those older kids that need that more consistent work, there is a level that they can work on things independently of mom. And, I mean, I don’t know about you, but my teachers never graded things right then and there. They Sometimes waited a week or two before turning back assignments. And our children, they can wait too. If mom needs that break because there’s a big life thing, then it’s okay.

Pam Barnhill [00:15:24]:
Hi, friend. We all know the benefits of Morning Time, beauty and joy in our homeschool, plus a time to connect and create relationships with our kids, but homeschool burnout can happen. So how can we beat it? Your morning basket plus takes all the planning out of your morning time so you can create space for engaging and starting your homeschool day on the right foot? With access to over 50 sets of morning time plans, live events, a community, and so much more, We walk right along with you in your homeschool journey. Join us at Pam or the link in the show notes, and Start creating a morning time you love today. Okay. So you just brought up a thought. Like, There is an ideal. Right? Ideally, we would take kids who were in that middle school and high school age range, and, ideally, we would get Back to them within a day or 2 with feedback on their assignments.

Pam Barnhill [00:16:24]:
But if there is a point in your life where you’re struggling for whatever reason and you don’t get back to them for a month? It is not the end of the world. You know? That’s not something to beat yourself up over. And I I love the fact that you brought that up and you said that. There is the ideal, and then there is sometimes what we are able to do. And sometimes the what we are able to do It’s good enough for those sometimes. You know?

Meg Angelino [00:16:50]:
Great. And I think the key is that it’s sometimes and not All times. We can’t be negligent in our duties as homeschool moms. We still need to do those things, give our children feedback, Grade their math. Explain to them something that they’re getting wrong. Hold them accountable for the things they’re assigned. But at the same time, it needs to be balanced with grace. And when you are in a season of burnout, there’s a place for grace and a place for patience on our children.

Pam Barnhill [00:17:22]:
Yeah. And and it’s so Year. I I think too, and boy, are we getting off topic. But I wanna say this because I think it’s important. I get moms who ask all the time, like, how do you grade all the papers? How do you grade all the math? I didn’t grade the math. Like, we stood right there together, and now my kids the what past tense because my kids have a math tutor, and she does it. But up until that point, we stood right there together and just very quickly went down and saw if the answer was correct or not. And they did it right there, like, before they left the table for that day.

Pam Barnhill [00:17:53]:
Now I only had 3 kids, so it was easier for me to do that than somebody Who maybe had 6 kids or was running after a toddler, but most kids who are 11, 12, 13 years old can, in front of you, Like, in the room where you are, sit there with the teacher’s guide open and check the work that they’ve already done and ask you any questions so it becomes an immediate feedback loop? And I think sometimes as homeschool moms, I have a tendency to do this, so I’m just gonna go out on a limb and maybe other people have the tendency to is we build things up in our head and make it way harder and more overwhelming than what it needs to be. So I’m glad you said that. I wanna jump back though, Meg. You’re a mom of middle schoolers and you’re Time, A whole month of just morning time? Now I know you said the older kids could be doing things independently, but

Meg Angelino [00:18:45]:
I wouldn’t say that I I would say that that is reserved for, like, extreme circumstances. You know, new baby, big move, surgery, things like that,

Ali Madej [00:18:55]:

Meg Angelino [00:18:57]:
I’ve done two out of the three. So, I I’ve been there and I’ve done that. But, if

Pam Barnhill [00:19:03]:
And your kids are okay.

Meg Angelino [00:19:04]:
And they’re okay. They’ve survived.

Pam Barnhill [00:19:06]:
And I’m gonna agree with you.

Meg Angelino [00:19:08]:

Pam Barnhill [00:19:09]:
Yeah. I’m gonna agree with you 100%. I don’t think, I don’t think just taking a whole month. If you’re really, really experiencing burnout and a lot of times I talk in the autopilot course, we have the course Put Your Homeschool Your On Autopilot, which is all about setting yourself up to, to handle to plan for whatever life might throw at you. And one of the things I talk about when I’m talking about setting up your annual schedule is You can, you know, be flexible enough to give yourself every Friday off during the month of February. So I have no problem with doing morning time for a month. And I think Ali Idea of sneaking in some of those skill subjects so you feel better about doing that. Very recently, I Interview Denise Gaskins of Let’s Play Math on the 10 Minutes to a Better Homeschool podcast, and we’ll link to that Episode, it’s so surreal because I interviewed her last week.

Pam Barnhill [00:20:04]:
The episode’s coming out next week, and then we’re talking about linking to it now. But She has these great let’s play math books, and there are all these games in there that you could actually play during your morning time with your kid, which would make a fabulous mathematics education for especially elementary kids, but she has games all the way up through pre algebra and algebra that you could do. So I think sneaking that stuff in sneaking. I’m using my air quotes. It is certainly one of the things that you could do. The other thing to remember, if you are feeling burned out and you’re like, oh, I would like to try this idea, but now I’ve got to go find all these math games, is you don’t. Start with what you do for Morning Time. And then as you move along and you’re ready to add on something else, then add on something else.

Pam Barnhill [00:21:00]:
But even starting with less than you do in a normal morning time might be a way to combat burnout. Like, we’re just gonna do these 3 things today. And I certainly think, if I were choosing, I would choose to pray. I would choose to watch current events on YouTube. You know, we do the world from a to z. And then I would choose One book to read to my kids. That would be how I would start right there. One really good read aloud.

Meg Angelino [00:21:32]:
There is definitely, you know, so many things that like, pieces you can choose. And I think that, really, it’s A matter of choosing what fits your family. Right? So I would probably it would probably be pretty similar. Like, I’d probably choose prayer, And probably Bible and probably a really good read aloud. And whether that had, like, Stork or science or something kind of mixed in to make me feel less guilty about, like, missing some of those other subjects. I would be okay with that and not feel guilty, and I would just enjoy it for what it is. And, you know, and even if it’s just something fun and pleasurable to read with your children. That’s okay too.

Meg Angelino [00:22:19]:
It’s a matter of figuring out what you can do to continue to move forward. And, you know, listening to you talk about autopilot, I think about how many times I’ve used autopilot to kind of structure in those places for just in case there is that burnout season and kind of plan ahead and, like, have my, essentially, my sub plan in hand, and it’s just so helpful. And then, you know, also too, like, you know, I’m gonna throw out Explorations as well.

Ali Madej [00:22:51]:

Meg Angelino [00:22:51]:
That’s another great way to, like, sneak in some of that pleasurable learning, and I would especially if I had younger kids, still, like, would definitely just say maybe prayer and Bible and Explorations or prayer and read aloud and Explorations and just enjoy enjoy that time together.

Pam Barnhill [00:23:18]:
Yeah. Ali, your kids are in that age where you guys are in the thick of using those Explorations. Do you think that that could be a good plan for a burnout period?

Ali Madej [00:23:27]:
Definitely. And I think the way that they’re open and go I think anything open and go when you’re feeling when you’re feeling burnout and you’re not feeling the motivation to I mean, if you’re in that state having to, like, then say, okay. I’m gonna do morning time, and I’m gonna Plan out my entire morning time from scratch, that’s exhausting. So a 100%, I think, the explorations And they are. They’re open and go. You just either from, you know, your phone, the computer, just click that next task. It can be as easy as it’s texted to you every day. You don’t even have to which one you’re gonna pick.

Ali Madej [00:24:01]:
It’s just right there for you. And then again, it it does. It fits with you with any family dynamic, what you have going on. You know, If first you’re praying or first you’re singing a hymn first, you know, you start there like you would normally and then and then click the text for the rest of your content right there.

Pam Barnhill [00:24:17]:
Yeah. And, you know, the great thing we don’t necessarily endorse this, but members of our community have said, like, they go to the book list, and they go to YouTube, and they type in the name of the book and read aloud. And sometimes the book will just pop up. And so if you’re sitting here saying, Well yeah. But I’m not you know, the the thing that really adds to the Explorations are all of these books they suggest. Well, You know, a lot of them you can find as a read aloud. And so you don’t even have to print out the book list and go to your library website and go to the library. For a season, you could just access some of those read alouds online and play that for your kids.

Pam Barnhill [00:24:58]:
You don’t even have to do the reading aloud.

Meg Angelino [00:25:02]:
And I will say this too. A lot of libraries offer apps like Hoopla or Libby where you can actually check out some of those books on audio and listen that way as well. So, there is more than one way to skin a cat and, you know, and and another thing I would do is even see if you can check out things online and then just swing by your library and pick them up and even let the kids leave them strew them leave the kids them out for the kids to explore themselves.

Pam Barnhill [00:25:36]:
Oh, that’s such a fabulous idea. You know, Don Garrett would remind us that Charlotte Mason said Ali education is self education, and so throwing some of that Step out for the kids to just discover themselves during that season of burnout. And when you’re doing it with the Explorations it’s gonna tie together with what you’re you’re talking about during that morning time period, and then they’re also Kind of exploring and discovering and finding other things to just expand upon that learning. And so what starts off is just a few minutes of learning in your morning can expand into a longer period of learning during the day when they’re picking up some of those books and and looking at them and and reading them? So I love that so much too. Anything.

Ali Madej [00:26:23]:
And use what you already have. I was the anything else? I was gonna say use what you already have too. If you’re feeling tired, these the topics that we come up with are Ones that are familiar and your kids have probably heard of before. We’re working on dance right now. Engineering is coming up. We have reptiles. That’s something where the kids can look around the house for maybe toys or figurines that they already have or books you already have in your own home library. That makes it really easy too, and it gives the kids something to do if they’re helping you collect and go through and see what you have that’s already related to Time topic and pull it all together.

Pam Barnhill [00:26:58]:
Oh, I love that. Yeah. A lot of those topics Your could certainly find. And currency is one of the ones we have coming up this spring, so how much fun just to To pull out the cans of money and stack money and move it around and, oh, do we have a Canadian penny in here? And, you know, just so many different, fun things that that you could do with it. So yeah. I think so. I love the explorations as a potential Way to explore some topics and do some learning in a fun way into one of the things that some of our members have said That they love about the explorations is you do it for about a month, and then you move on in the next month as a new topic. And so that’s something that gets People excited, like kids excited about changing and probably moms too, if they’re being honest.

Pam Barnhill [00:27:48]:
I will say, and I think we’ll wrap it up with this right here. When people ask me what is something that keeps you from being burned out in your homeschool, my answer is Morning Time. Morning Time is the part of my homeschool day that I look forward to more than any other part of the day. It’s the part that I enjoy the most. It’s the part where I feel I get to learn. It’s the part where I feel closest to my kids because we’re Having discussions and we’re building those relationships. And so I just want to say, morning time is not just how we beat burnout in our homeschool once we have it. Morning Time is also how we can avoid burnout in our homeschool as well.

Meg Angelino [00:28:33]:
Oh, I would 100% agree with that. There is, you know, a level of efficiency that keeps me from overworking myself. There is the connection to my children, and then there is the modeling of learning because It is the place where I get to read the books that I missed or, learn about things that I think are interesting too And memorize maybe the poems or the hymns that I never had the opportunity to do as a child.

Pam Barnhill [00:29:07]:
Yeah. There’s a great quote, and I can’t remember. Oh, I use it in a talk, and it’s been a couple Year, but it was about we don’t grow old. We grow because of limitations of learning, because of ruts we fall into. And I think it was Anna Comstock Who said that? And then Oscar Wilde has kind of a similar quote about we grow old when we stop learning. And, there, If you’ve never read the introduction to the Handbook of Nature Study, I think it’s the best part of the book. It doesn’t even have a whole lot to do with the nature study itself, it’s more about teaching and being a modeler of lifelong learning, and and she talks about that in there. It’s our Ruts and limitations and lack of learning that causes us to grow old.

Pam Barnhill [00:29:51]:
And so I definitely think morning time combats that. Alright, ladies. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate it. You guys have a good one.

Meg Angelino [00:30:01]:
Thanks, Pam. You too. Thank you.

Pam Barnhill [00:30:11]:
Thanks so much for listening to Your Morning Basket. If you are ready to spend less time planning and more time engaged in learning with your children, Join your Morning Basket plus, a monthly membership with everything you need to start a Morning Time practice in your homeschool. To join, head on over to, and I’ll see you there.

Links and Resources From Today’s Show

Handbook of Nature StudyPinHandbook of Nature StudyHandbook of Nature StudyPin


Key Ideas About Morning Time and Burnout

  • Utilize library apps, such as; Hoopla, Libby for audiobooks and online resources to engage kids in learning during times of burnout.
  • Embrace the fun and learning potential in Explorations, read-aloud time, and strewing to keep kids engaged.
  • Explore strategies for managing burnout, including; managing mom’s health, starting with enjoyable subjects, and outsourcing subjects.
  • Emphasize the importance of balance and grace for both the homeschooling parent and the children during times of burnout.
  • See Morning Time as a fundamental tool to combat burnout. 

Find What You Want to Hear

  • [0:00] Opening Discussion
  • [01:06] Signs of Burnout
  • [5:32] Importance of Morning Time in Homeschool
  • [17:22] Handling Grading for Multiple Students
  • [22:51] Strategies for Including Pleasurable Learning
  • [25:02] Using Library Apps
  • [27:58] Benefits of Morning Time for Efficiency, Connection with Children, and Modeling Lifelong Learning and Curiosity

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