YMB #53 Character Education for Families: A Conversation with Heather McMillan

Pam: This is your morning basket, where we help you bring truth, goodness, and beauty to your home. Okay. Welcome to a new season and episode 53 of the, your morning basket podcast. I’m Pam Barnhill, your host, and I am so happy that you are joining me here today. Well, today on this episode of the podcast, we have a very special guest, Ms. Heather McMillan from we choose virtues, Heather and I had a great conversation about how to create a shared language to discuss virtues and character with your kids. And not only that, but how to go beyond just the surface level of getting your kids to behave well and really reach deep into their heart about what makes good character. I think you’re going to enjoy this episode of the podcast and Heather’s enthusiasm and wonderful take on teaching our kids virtues.

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Heather McMillan has a passion for helping children grow in virtues that will serve them well over a lifetime traits like perseverance diligence, and self-control drawing from her own experience as a homeschool mom of four and a preschool teacher, Heather developed an original character education program called we choose virtues since Heather’s products were first launched in 2010, we choose virtues has been used in homes and schools throughout the U S and all over the world.

Heather joins us on this episode of the podcast to chat about character education in morning time, Heather, welcome to the program. Oh, I’m so happy to be here. Thank you, Pam. Well, it is wonderful to have an old friend on, and it’s great to get to talk to you about character education. So let’s start by you making the case for character education.

Why is it something we need to be intentional about and not just expect our kids to pick up this stuff on their own? You know, I, I got to read over some of your questions. Then when I saw this was coming first, I was like, Oh my goodness, we’re jumping right in to the very deep and very first off. And I love this question because I think that as homeschool moms,

we have got to be the most intentional group of people I’ve ever met. It’s a passion for us to raise children who are successful in relationships, as well as in their careers. But most homeschool moms are also in homeschool. Dads and grandmas and grandpas at homeschool are really also wanting children who are going to walk with Jesus all the days of their life and fulfill the purpose for which they were created.

And character is such a pivotal part of that whole puzzle. I really believe that. And I’ve told teachers this as well, that as busy as we are teaching all of these important skills in school mathematics and history and all these things in case can be made for all of them, really characters, not one more thing to add to the plate. Character is the plate and everything that we teach our children needs to rest upon a foundation.

And that foundation is, is this a person who, who can carry the calling and the anointing and the purpose of their life successfully throughout their life. So even in the Bible, we can look at David, we can look at Saul, different other great men and women in the Bible. And we immediately know that they were all called and they all had great purpose,

but really the ones that took it all the way to the end of their life was success for that. Also had character and the character could begin to grow and begin to show as fruit in their life. As they continued on through their journey. Sometimes character is very slow to build, and it doesn’t always show right away, but eventually it will, and it will make all the difference.

You know, I know my sons and my daughter has been very successful in, in jobs that they’ve received relationships that they’ve had and only difference between them and their contemporaries in a very similar scenario is whether or not that child was a person who was honest, or maybe they were diligent, or maybe they were had forgiven someone. And that character was the thing that set them apart.

So I believe that it was all my heart. And I think that the reason why it’s important to me is because I was trained so well by my parents to have character. And I know that not every mom and not every grandma or teacher has that same benefit that I had. And so I want to make it easy for those people to also raise children of character,

even if they didn’t maybe have that same advantage that I had growing up. Yeah. That’s a really good point because sometimes I think, and, and not just a situation where you didn’t necessarily have that advantage yourself, but sometimes when, when you did have that advantage and you were raised up and with good character, somebody taught you good character. And,

and I think one of the greatest influences in my life growing up was my grandmother. And, you know, I can remember learning kind of these character lessons from her, but it’s not something I necessarily, it’s kind of like reading. I felt like I always knew how to read. I can’t remember learning how to read. So how do I teach my child to read?

So it’s nice to have a curriculum that lays out the path for me and character education. It’s like, you know, and we’ve used your character education cards in our homeschool. And it’s just really nice to have like those things to talk about things that I never really thought about myself and exactly how do I define this? Or what are some good examples to give,

or how do we have this conversation and, and having those tools. I mean, I’m tired, I’m busy, I have a million things going on. And so having those tools to help me make it intentional, I think really helps. Sometimes I think that’s, that’s such a good point. And, you know, we all rely on one another and that’s just how God created human beings and how to create the bodies to fit together.

And this is sort of my piece that I bring. It was easy for me. It was a passion for me. And I’m then able to take things that are not quite as clear on and glean those from other people. So it’s, you’re absolutely right. The help that just having the tool makes it very easy. Yeah. Yeah. I think so.

Well, let’s talk about the fruit of some of this, and you kind of touched on this with your kids and maybe you’ve seen it bear fruit in other families too, but what are some of the fruits that you’ve seen from families your own or others from education and training and virtue? Sure. Well, my four children are almost all out of the house.

I’ve one, that’s 19 is my youngest. My oldest is 25 and two of them are married and I really believe free is such a good word. And if you keep your eye on the fruit and what fruit it is, it you’re really looking for. It helps you to know whether or not you’ve attained, what it is that your goal is, are our fruit that we’re looking for from character is not perfection.

And it’s not, it’s not being this ideal citizen or this sinless version of a person, a human being. It really is the fruit of a lifestyle character in the child’s life is love. And I can look at my young, young, married children and see selflessness in that marriage. And I can see self-sacrifice and I can see being willing to persevere through very,

very lean times and very hard times. And, you know, as a mom, you just want to always jump in and sort of fix things. But my job as a mom has been to gradually turn this child over to a place where they’re full reliances on Christ. And that takes character for them to complete cling to Christ. When the easy way out would be to get a credit card or the easy way out would be to just fight for their own way and their own wants and desires.

I’m seeing the fruit of character in my children’s lives, by the things that they’re talking about, the way that they’re handling conflict, the kind of spouses that they chose, the longevity that they’re staying in a job when the workplace is difficult. I have one son who is a javelin thrower. He, he won state when he was a senior in high school and he was at college and through his javelin,

just sort of playing around and sprained his knee horribly. And it turned out to be now he’s had three surgeries. He can’t, he can’t be in any sports. And this was, this child love was, this was outdoor sports, athletics, and skiing. And I’ve had to watch him handle it with grace. As I’ve gotten to watch him handle it without becoming depressed,

angry, because his heart of love is I’m going to trust the Lord. I’m, I’m going to get through this. I’m going to keep persevering. I’m going to find a way to still live my dreams, even though this difficult thing has happened to me. And of course in his mind, he’s thinking if I have made a different decision in a split moment,

I wouldn’t even be happy having any of this problem, which happens twice in life. All the time. We make one little decision that sends us on a path. And then how we respond to that twist in the road that was unfair is really when you begin to see the evidence of whether or not your child had character, what it is not is not,

we’re not looking for, is my child still embarrassing you in the grocery store because the child could still be in process, you know, or is my child still not going to bed and staying in their bed at night or whatever. And I’m, I’m still having to work through that. And then we’re still in a process and we’re still training, but it’s really,

how do they love? How does their heart, is it, is it all about self-love or is it about others? No. What I love about this is that you say it, it’s not about perfection. This is not about making perfect people of our kids. It’s not about that. They’re always going to have the correct behavior that they’re, they’re always growing because they’re not going to be perfect.

But, but that instead it’s about, it’s about love, you know, a love that reflects Christ. So I really, really liked that. I feel like it takes a lot of pressure off the parent too, to always be looking for the outward expressions that are gonna make their life easier. The mom and dad’s life easier, or to make them be a better student or whatever the child’s sort of issue is.

It’s difficult. Sometimes those things take a long time to really work through. And yet there’s improvement happening in the child’s heart. There’s change. The child’s attitude is changing. The child’s responses are changing. And as, as a person who’s working on this specific skill of character, we’re wanting to see the heart change and the actions are going to change. They’re going to come,

but the heart is really where the fruit, the lasting fruit is going to come from. And that’s why I feel like it’s so important that parents know what fruit am I actually looking for here is going to be less, not perfection as far as fruit and that. And I think that that should help a parent keep their eye on the prize and what the real goal is.

Oh, that’s good. That’s good. Well, tell me, where did you get the idea for? We choose virtues and tell me a little bit about the program. Sure. Which is virtues started off just as a list. In fact, when I was growing up, my mom always had a list on the fridge of character qualities that she wanted us to have.

And so whenever we, we were being disobedient or whatever, she’d send us over to the fridge and she’d say, find the one that you’re not doing. And she had a set of verse with it right there. And so that was sort of my childhood. And when I became a teacher preschool teacher, I implemented some similar things where I thought I really wanted easily define these virtues.

So as a child, that’s very young is going to learn the actual, clear and precise actions and heart attitudes that go with these particular standards that I wanted to have in my classroom. And it was a challenge, but I came up with catch phrases to use in my classroom. And before I knew it, lots of, of my teacher, friends and parent friends would come in and ask me if they could have that list for their houses.

And so that’s kind of where it began and where I perfected it. And then I use it often and I really began to see some good fruit in my students’ lives. And I speak in to see the behavior problems and the squabbling and so forth came down such to such a minimum that I was able to get a lot more done in the classroom. And so are,

my classroom is very peaceful and it was a great environment. A few years later, I was not healthy enough to continue teaching. I had some pretty severe kidney problems and I had become home from and not go back to work. And I was really devastated. And a friend of mine said, what would you do if you didn’t have to get a different job,

or if you could just stay home. And I said, I would write a book. So she actually paid for me to send my kids back to school and it was a school. My husband was running so that I could stay home and write a book. And I got out my laptop and I started writing a parenting book that was very much on my heart.

And chapter six was going to be about what it is that we want to plant in our child’s lives, because so much of parenting is what you’re pulling up and how your Colt’s feeding. But I wanted to really focus on what you put in that. And I was, I got so excited about it. And then I decided I didn’t want it to be a book.

I wanted it to be a tool that someone could pick up a news or have hanging on their wall and that it would just be a simple reminder and a daily part of their life until their family got the language down and were able to just go off the cards and write into everyday life. And that’s exactly what we choose virtues became. And I wrote it that very first year and then put it on the internet and I’ve been running the company for what has it been now?

Eight years. Wow. And so are the virtues in, we choose virtues or is this the exact same list that your mom had on the refrigerator at home when you were growing up? It’s not the same. She had a lot of duplicate work where I wanted to keep the list very short. And so I try to make sure I picked words that,

you know, many of the virtues that my mom had could be kind of consolidated into one other virtue. So I, I was very selective and my, again, my main goal, my original goal was for the classroom was what are these conflicts that are going on that are disruptive to my students actually learning or getting along with each other or getting through difficult subjects with,

with ease because they they’re crippled by a lack of character. Perseverance would be a great example. Attentiveness is a huge, huge example of visiting the classroom. Child’s not attendance teacher has to repeat over and over. It’s very difficult and time consuming. So I chose the virtues based on what would help the teacher. And then those same virtues now are going home with the child inside the child and making a difference in their own homes.

So how could we use, we choose virtues. How might we use that during morning time? Can you give me one or two applications? So I’m sitting there with my kids, you know, I happen to have three, but other families have six or seven or eight. And, you know, they range in age from early teens, mid teens,

all the way down to a toddler. What’s, what’s a way that we could use, we choose virtues. First of all, I can’t tell you not so much. I love the concept of morning time. I think when you have that little burst of success where you’ve really taught some great things at the beginning of the day, it’s like waking up and putting your shoes on.

It just makes you more productive. If you have a sense of success, right at the beginning, confidence that your day is going to go well. And I think it’s a perfect time to begin to introduce. We choose virtues or whatever virtue program you’re going to use. And my suggestion would be that the mom picks one that first of all is, could be very hard or very easy for different children.

And let them say, is this one going to be hard for me? Or is it going to be easy for me? Because there’s such a broad variety of people in some fine kindness, for example, there’d be no problem at all. Whereas others find it to be one of them are difficult and more challenging virtues. So to have the conversation about the virtue and to say,

do you think this is going to be easy or hard? Another suggestion would be then is to start asking the children who do you know, that uses the virtue of kindness and tell me a story and to let the children from their own little resource cabinet, have their own little knowledge, begin to share how it is that this virtue is, is emulated in there in the lives of the people around them and keeping it positive and helping them to feel a part of the conversation.

And then to simply say, well, I see you can understand it for like that whole use the word in the sentence thing. I know you understand it. I see how you’re applying it. Now we’re going to leave here and we’re going to actually do that ourselves. And at the end of the day, we’re going to ask again, who, who did you catch using the kindness virtue today and how did they use it and how did that make you feel?

And so really conversational in the mornings, if you are using virtue cards, pull one out and go over those text phrases so that you’re sure that everybody is very clear, that kindness means this. And attentiveness means that talk about the Antonin flip opposite of the virtue would be, and even during the day is schoolwork is going on. You can continually refer back to it because you brought it up in the morning and really have that good conversation.

Yeah. And, and like I said, one of the things that I loved about the cards was it, it gave me the vocabulary that I could use to talk about this that I maybe hadn’t thought about. You know, you know, I like to think that I’m, I’m fairly kind. I mean, I know I can always work on it,

but I like to think I’m a fairly kind person, but I don’t always know exactly all the right examples and how to express it. And, and, you know, there were just some, some great things on the card that, that cards that gave me the vocabulary, you know, to talk about this in a way that maybe I hadn’t thought about before.

So that was one of the things that, that I loved about it. I so appreciate that. And I feel like the depth, the, the other issue besides the language, which is huge, is the other part of it is the demonstrations. And those are on the back as well. Of every virtue. I try very hard to think what could a family do?

What could, what could a mom do for kids that would actually demonstrate the virtue? And the reason that’s important is if you is because you’re asking the child to stretch themselves, to actually become something. And so they need to practice that and get that feeling of, Oh, this is where I draw. This is where I would normally have drawn the line and not push past.

This is where I normally would have said, I don’t want to do this anymore, but I’m being asked to push myself a little bit and then there’s that, there’s that success. And there’s that realization. Okay. I actually was more self-controlled than I thought I could be. I actually enjoy being diligent. And what we found with children is it, Zane love just absolutely love the genuine self confidence that comes from being a person of character.

And so to, to add these demonstrations in is kind of a, another whole layer to the language helps that child know I was able to do it yesterday. I’m going to do it today. And what, what they don’t know is that it’s kind of like slow roasting, you know, you’re meeting a Crock-Pot or putting braces on your teeth. It’s a slow move,

but it is a guess in it move, and it will absolutely produce the results that you’re looking for and tell you, it’s almost imperceivable to the trial, but they are actually becoming something else, something so much more than we ever thought that could be. Right. Right. And yeah. And you have, what about three of those on the back of every card?

Those little, well, no, three, three to four. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the back of each one. So that is good, you know, great examples there and just little ways that you can, you know, bring it to, I guess, make it real to the kids I’m looking right now. So I’m looking at some of the examples right now on the back.

So just kind of little things that you could do, you brought that perseverance, like hide and seek is a great game for teaching perseverance, you know? And so you make it harder and harder and, and everybody sticks with it each and every time you, you hide something and each time you hide it, you make it a little bit harder for them to find it.

And each and every time they, they find it, you know, you’re showing them that they have to work a little bit harder. And that’s what perseverance is not to give up just to keep going. And that’s a great thing where kids can work together to if you’re sitting there and morning time, and you’re doing that demonstration and you’re hiding something and it’s getting,

first of all, they’re going to love it. You know, my kids love it anytime we would do something like that, but you know, it’s going to make it, they’re going to work together at it. And that’s just going to build that community between them and help them. So yeah, some great moments on there as well. So I love that.

And I, I love to tell moms to have older children teach the virtue one morning. It’s so easy for an older child, a 12 year old, a nine year old to pick up the card and say that the younger kids, okay. Today I chose this virtue. And even the five-year-old could sit, could have a turn taking the virtue because as we know,

teaching it instills it in a whole different way. It becomes their, they have ownership and we choose virtues is not just about knowledge. It’s about personal responsibility and becoming, and so anytime a child in morning time can or explain, you’re going to be building that muscle even, even more into their heart. Right. Right. And then, you know,

a great little box, what to say after, I’m sorry. And this is where that extra, some of that extra vocabulary comes in. So for example, on patients, which is so funny, I was sitting at co-op a few weeks ago, Heather and another mom was there and she has a little one who is almost two years old and, and he was being impatient.

And she said, I just wish I had some little song we could sing to be, you know, to be, to teach patients. So like he would have to sing it while he waited. And I said, well, it just so happens. I have a little song for you because there are little songs that go along with the cards, but I love that on the back of the patient’s card,

it says, please forgive me for being pushy, being controlling, getting bored, getting frustrated a lot of times, you know, kids. And this is where the vocabulary comes in. People, kids don’t understand that when they’re sitting there being, expressing their frustration with another sibling, for being slow, or, you know, things don’t come quickly enough,

that’s not having patience. And so I love that. I think it does. I think that it really does help the moms know how to, how to categorize some of those emotions, that anger and frustration to recognize that that really is a lack of patience. And so it’s not just, it’s not just turning to them and say, stop. I need you to stop just turning to them and say,

I need you to stop being impatient. Right? You’re showing frustration because your brother’s being slow. And right now is a perfect moment for you to choose to wait and wait and wait with a smile. And so again, they’ve practiced it a couple of times in a silly game, they know how it felt. They know that they can push past that feeling and,

and, and their response can be correct. It’s really about changing a child or a human being because this for parents too, but it’s about changing our initial human response that we think that we deserve to have, because our, because of our situation, we’re changing that initial response to being a, a response of a person of character. And if you’re a believer in Jesus,

you can set, you could say I’m changing this initial response to be a Christ-like response. And so, no, I don’t deserve to be angry. I deserve to, I deserve nothing that I’ve been given an opportunity to show patients in spite of the fact that my situation is, is frustrating. I don’t have to an inpatient person. Yeah. That is absolutely huge because I struggle with that.

And so I know children struggle with that. I mean, you know, my initial response to so much as like sarcasm or just things, things that it necessarily shouldn’t be. And I often think, Oh, I would like to change that. But at some point you have to take responsibility for that initial moment where you decide, you know, you’re going to open your mouth and the sarcasm comes out.

Are you going to raise your voice at the children? Or in the child’s case, you know, I’m going to turn around and lash out instead of forgiving my brother. And so often we feel horrible after that, right after that initial response. But I, and I think you’ve, you’ve hit upon the, the crux of it right there. It’s about controlling that initial response.

You could probably write a whole book on that alone. And, and it actually is a little bit, a tiny bit deeper than that because lots of people control how their response appears to the people on the outside. But what about the, what about the truth of what you really think and believe? And those things, those beliefs that you’ve, I deserve to be mad right now,

but I’m not going to, I’m going to control it. What that actually ends up doing is, is galvanizing pride. Because now I think I’m a better person than everyone around me who would have lashed out and I chose not to. So I’m controlling myself. So again, that’s the perfection fair cycle that way on the surface, but the end result of that.

So what really it is if it needs to be a repentance when the moment that, that temptation to just lash out and to, to, to let self be gratified to say, ah, I feel like I deserve to be mad right now, but I’m going to choose to humble myself. I’m just going to wait and I’m going to let that go deep enough down inside of me,

that it’s really literally my first response is a soft, selfless response. Now this is not about getting walked all over. This is not about being abused or being mistreated and just taking it all the time, but your response can still be, I can still be patient in spite of the fact that I was wronged and we need to fix that. We need to make sure that this isn’t a big problem in a cycle,

but my response deep down inside of me can still be right. And so now we’re growing bushels and acres of healthy character. That’s coming, that’s bearing fruit in the life of every person we touch because we chose before we ever stuffed our emotions, we chose to just respond. And you’re like one of my toughest guests ever, because you’re like, Oh,

you’re so convicting. I’m like, darn it. You know, not only do I have to hold my temper, I have to like it too. So Section is not the goal because you could be that who could do that, right? Perfection is not the goal. What is the goal? It’s that my motivation is that I want to love. So somebody in front of me is really slow and I’m driving down the road.

And I just decide, I don’t even know who that person is driving that gold, you know, Chevy, but I’m going to love them. And I’m going to not be mad at them right now. And I’m going to let that be okay, man, let’s it settled deep inside me. Okay. It’s not going to be about them. And the neat thing is then I was talking to a mom yesterday about this a little bit.

She said, she’s always so frustrated. And she said, I really love my life. I love my kids, but I just on the verge of agitation, frustration all the time. And, and I said, what happened? Where’s the piece? Where’s the, where’s the rest on the deep inside of you? And she said, I don’t know,

I’m going to have to find it because you can only hold your temper so long. And yet if you have true, true peace inside and true joy, true love inside, then you can hold your temper for miles for days, for years, because there’s, it’s not, there’s nothing deep down in there. That’s constantly boiling out in frustration. And I think the source of a lot of frustration for moms is guilt.

We, we see other people doing better than we are, or we compare ourselves with our own moms, or we compare ourselves with our own impossible standards. And that when I start feeling that way, my kids always get the brunt of it. They always hear me just being so frustrated with things on the outward that have not changed. And so I have to find peace inside my heart that I love that I’m a good Palmer,

that it’s okay. Things are going to be all right. And I can take off this massive backpack of being a perfect mom. Perfect homeschool mom, perfect pastor. And I can let Jesus love me. And now from that motivation of love, I can love my kids and I can help them become loving people. That’s awesome. So basically what you’re saying is that character education and morning time is also about bombs character.

Yeah. Now it often ends up that way, but, and, but I do have that, it, it does, it is a shared language. And we talk about this so much in morning time. And I talked about this in the book that one of the wonderful things about morning, time as you’re building this shared language and this shared family culture.

And when you, when you use something that is aimed towards character education, like we choose virtues, then you are building that shared language together, you know, and you have the, the little sayings on the front and you have the, the, the set I have are the, the homeschool set. And so they’re key with the Bible verses as well.

And so you’re building that shared language. So you can turn and have that conversation just by, you know, saying something like, you know, are you choosing to love when others hurt you? That’s your kids immediately know that that’s forgiving. And so, Yeah, I love it. Yeah. And once you get the language, then you can leave behind the props,

you know, take off the training wheels and just use the language wherever needed. I think, I think teaching a language to your family is a beautiful thing. It’s like your family culture and your family is going to be different and it’s going to be different in a good way. It’s not very hard to do because I, I did try to make it engaging for kids so that they would really want their virtue lesson and enjoy it.

So the moms went like, you know, it’s not like castor oil where you have to beg them to take it. It’s actually really, really fun. So Yeah, very much so. Well, you know, Heather, one of the problems that moms often have always have, I had this problem myself, some, some to some extent I still do,

but when you have really young kids, you have toddlers. We get this question all the time. What do I do about the toddlers and morning time? What do I do about the little kids in my school? I’m trying to do school with my kids and they’re these little kids and they’re loud and they want attention. So what are one or two key traits or virtues that you think make really good starting points with the little ones in order to make our lives a little bit easier as homeschool moms?

That’s a great question. We have three that we suggest, and they are also called the three rules. The first one is obey that obey is the one word rule be kind is the two word rule and be a helper is the three word rule. Those three virtues are actually an order of priority. And this is what is important for toddlers to understand is that obey is always first because toddlers love to help,

but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re being obedient. Like I remember so many times when I was a teacher, so many little ones would want to wipe the table when it was time to sit down, no need to stay in your chair. Well, I’m helping you. I appreciate you helping me. But obey is first. If you can teach your little one to just simply come,

when you call them to, to stay in their chair for, you know, a reasonable amount of time to pick up their toys, any little tiny instruction that you can give them. And I like to make a game of it. You know, I leave a few things on the kitchen floor or I would, you know, set it some blocks out and say,

all I need you to do is put these in the bin. That’s called being obedient. And so then you come and tell me when you finished. And when you tell me, I want you to say, mommy, I obeyed you. So this is giving them little tiny tasks that are showing them who is in charge and how you want it done and how they can help.

But yet it’s all in the guise of really they’re learning to be submitted to your house rules into your authority, or even to say to them, when you pass the school room door, we whisper. So let’s practice and just teaching them little things that make them feel like they’re a part, but they’re still learning their virtues. That’s awesome. And one of the things I love about obey is that you’re not slow to do because we get a lot of slow around here.

So eventually they obey, Okay, whatever you say, I will obey right away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they’re going to, they’re going to do it there. You know, they’re just going to put it off for a little while. Yep. And again, so that’s where the heart, that’s where the heart is. The obedience is going to be your biggest revelation of your child’s heart when they are not complete or when they do it very slowly,

there’s still an app there’s still control. They’re going to do it in their time, which is, is very, very much so to make sure that you understand that they’re still in control. And so that’s kind of why it’s so important that they do it the way that you’re asking and the timeframe that you’re giving them so that they understand this is not them being in control.

This is them being willing to do what you’ve asked. And man, every human being, every human being from the beginning of time has a hard time with that. But God is requiring us to teach our children. And if they will obey a human beings, then they can obey a God that they cannot see who has amazing plans for their life. And many of them don’t make sense and they have to just choose to put themselves in a place to do what he said and wait for that.

Awesome to obedience is crucial for that fruit that we were talking about. Yeah. And the verse that you use is a Psalm one 1934. We, you say, help me understand your law. Then I will follow it and obey it with all my heart, All my heart. I’ve lost that first. Yep. What advice or encouragement do you have for the mom who maybe feels like she’s coming late to the character education game?

Maybe the kids are a little older and she sees that there are some habits and attitudes in place that might be a little bit difficult to undo. I always felt like I was late to this game. I, I remember when my oldest left home, he was 19. He was going away to school and we had spent about a year from 18 to 19 of him and I not getting along very well because I was in a panic that I needed to catch up and I needed to get him sort of back on track and get him caught up to where he was supposed to be,

where I felt like he was supposed to be as far as, as far as kids’ character went, maybe it was a D maybe it was a laziness issue or again, probably obedience. And so I was very agitated and unkind in my approach to him. And the word really helped me. He taught me something that I’m so grateful that he did so I can share with other people.

And that is the Lord shared with me that when your children leave home, they’re not done. And when they leave your house at whatever age, they are 1822, whatever, they’re not dead, God is not then working on them. God is going to bring pastors into their life spouse, lots of different bosses, lots of different friends. And he’s going to bring hardship and he’s going to bring all kinds of things that will come along.

It will be the hand of God, just like you’ve been to mold that person. And as I let go and, and recognize that it was not my entire responsibility, to be sure that character was established in that child’s life before they hit the grand stage of life. It made me so much more comfortable to enjoy exactly where my child was at at the moment.

I love that. Boy. I really loved that boy. And I was not hardly at that time, even seeing the things that I loved in him, because I was so nervous that I had failed him as a mom. And so when I realized his wife and his pastor can help, and his boss is going to help, it just brought tremendous peace to me.

The other thing is, is that it’s, it is long game and it doesn’t matter if you start when they’re 11 or 12, my parents didn’t really start understanding discipline or understanding encouragement till I was nine. And my older brother was 11 and there was six kids in our family. We were the two older ones and here’s the thing I, I grabbed onto it and I loved it.

And I, I responded to it and my older brother fought it every step of the way. And I really think that it has a lot to do with the individual child, how they are choosing to receive and to respond. And that is really between them and the Lord. We, as parents have no say or control, we can appeal to them and say,

please respond, which I did have done many times with my children. Please respond, please feel to this, but it really is an individual choice. And so for a parent, whether they start when their child is a brand new little one, or maybe it’s an adopted or a foster child or their own child, they didn’t really understand what to do yet.

Wherever they start is fine, it’s going to be okay. And every bit of investment that that parent makes in the character training of their child is going to make a massive difference in the end. And God cared so much about that child, that they’re going to make sure that child is completed. As long as that child keeps responding. And this just goes back to that,

you know, not striving for perfection thing, it’s, it’s progress, not perfection. And so, and I, I love that you said that about, you know, it was not your job to make sure that everything was complete by the time he turned 18 and left, because we run into this with academics too. So many moms are like, what about gaps?

You know, are they going to know everything that they need to know before they leave my homeschool? And you know, they’re not, but you can be held responsible yes, way too much pressure, way too much pressure. And you know, you said, it’s their choice. You know, this goes back to freewill. They’ve got to respond to God and,

and you know, you plant the seeds, but they’ve got to be the one to respond. We can pray for them too. I mean, and then certainly as mothers, I think we do, that’s, that’s our role is to plant those seeds. And our role is to keep praying, but we can’t fix everything. And, and therefore we have to do something that I think is a little bit hard for some of us in our,

in our homeschool mom, niche that we live in is we have to be very careful to not, to give control back to the Lord that this child’s academic level and character level is, is not a of me. It is not about me. I’m not doing this so that people will be impressed by me. I am doing this because I am a handmaiden of award.

And he has gifts given me these children for me to teach them, to serve him, to love him, that they are ultimately his, and they do have a free will. And I really believe that praying the simple prayer. And I feel like this prayer is so powerful to just say, father, please soften my child’s heart. If there’s a hard place and you just you’ve tried everything and you cannot get that,

not worked out. If that child’s responses are always responding the same way, father, please soften my child’s heart. The Bible talks about an Exodus when Pharaoh and Moses were having their big, big conflict. It said that the heart of Kings is in the hands of a war. And it is truly the Lord who softens the heart or even allows the heart to stay hard.

And so when another is pleading with God, please soften my child’s heart so that they can receive the discipline that I’m trying to bring out of obedience. I’m just doing what you’re asking me to do. Please make sure that they, that you work on them to receive it from me. No, that is a great prayer. That is a great prayer.

Yeah. And, and that’s, it just goes back to God, calls us to quote my friend, Sarah McKinsey, God calls us to be faithful. We get up and we do the work. The results are in his hands, not in ours, but our focus is on doing the work, you know, and being faithful to it each and every day.

And the results are his. And so, yeah. And so that’s, that’s, I think we want to leave a message here that, you know, character education for our kids is not about perfection, but about being faithful in doing that work. And morning time is a great time to have those conversations. It really is. It’s amazing house starting the day.

That way we’ll give you some, a vision for how your child can get through to the end of each day and every day counts. And every day he’s adding something and starting it off right in the morning, time is absolutely the best I rec have recommended it for years to start with virtues beginning of the day. So I’m so thrilled that you’re including it in your talk.

And I hope that people will just find it to be a refreshing and positive addition to what they’re already doing. So wonderfully well for their children. Wonderful. Well, Heather, thank you so much for joining me today. Could you tell everybody where they can find you online? Absolutely. I am at, we choose virtues.com and you can search there to find tools for the little ones,

which be ages three through 10, as well as ages 11 through 18. We do have music now for children and we have products even for your homeschool club, but mainly homeschool products and even family products. If you’re not homeschooling. So lots of things to choose from including classroom materials for church and school. So yes, we try to make sure everybody has something that will really fit the niche of what they’re trying to accomplish.

We choose virtus.com, Great blog, full of information there@wechoosevirtues.com as well. If you want to read up more on things, some really great tips. So, well, thank you. I really appreciate you coming on. This was wonderful. I always love talking to you, Pam, and God bless you and everything you’re doing. Thanks Heather. And there you have it.

Now, if you would like links to any of the books or resources that Heather and I chatted about today, you can find them on the show notes for this episode of the podcast, along with links to the, we choose virtues website, that’s at Pam barnhill.com forward slash Y M B 53. You can find everything you need right there. We’ll be back in a couple of weeks with another great morning time interview until then keep seeking truth,

goodness and beauty in your homeschool day.