Can You Really Outsource High School? One Mom’s Story

Pam Barnhill [00:00:01]:
Are you ready for homeschooling to feel joyful again? Do you long for support as you learn alongside your kids? Welcome to Homeschool Better Together, a podcast about building a homeschool experience that works for your family. I’m Pam Barnhill, and it’s time to step out of the overwhelm and into the wonder. Let’s do this. Hi there, and welcome back to the podcast. So this is the second episode in our tale of two high schools series. And today, I am joined by Meg Angelino, and we’re gonna be talking about what homeschooling high school looks like when you outsource a lot of your classes. And just Meg’s start, getting started homeschooling high school after having homeschooled for so many years, and then, oh, now I have this freshman, and I have to do something new. Now if you missed it, the last episode was Dawn Garrett, our community manager, and she interviewed Elizabeth Overcash.

Pam Barnhill [00:01:09]:
Elizabeth also has a young high schooler. She has a high schooler in tenth grade, but she has the unique perspective of having had an older child go to public school. And so now she is able to compare that public school experience with a child to her homeschool experience with a child. So this is our tale of two high schools. Be sure to go back and listen to that last episode with Elizabeth. She is doing a very eclectic, hands on, teacher intensive kind of homeschooling, And, you’ll get a great juxtaposition over what Meg’s doing. And it’s just really fun to look at the different kinds of high school experiences you can create based on what your kids need. And so that’s what we’re gonna be talking about today.

Pam Barnhill [00:01:58]:
Enjoy the podcast. Alright. I am here today with miss Meg Angelino. She is a regular on the podcast. She is the operations manager and the curriculum editor here at Homeschool Better Together, and so you have heard her voice before. And she is also the mom of two homeschool kids. And I’m gonna get their ages wrong, so I’m just gonna let you go ahead. I know that one of them is in ninth grade, but tell us about both of them.

Meg Angelino [00:02:27]:
Hi, Pam. I have a boy that is 15. He’s a freshman in high school. And then I also have a daughter who is a freshly minted 13 and is in seventh grade. So I am fully in this throes of thinking about high school and being in high school and all that fun stuff.

Pam Barnhill [00:02:50]:
And just getting your feet wet with high school. I mean, this is this has definitely been your year to get your feet wet with high school. So what made you decide that you were gonna homeschool high school?

Meg Angelino [00:03:03]:
Well, we’ve been homeschooling since the beginning, and I’ve always said to my kids that we, you know, would keep homeschooling as long as they wanted to. And so high school rolled around, and lots of opportunities started to present themselves. But the kids have ultimately said, we still wanna be with you, mom. So we’re still homeschooling life school.

Pam Barnhill [00:03:30]:
Was it something that as it got closer that you started to, like, really worry about or really dread, or did it just become because I remember for me, I know I thought about it, but it also as we got closer to it and we did seventh grade and eighth grade and all of that stuff, it was like, oh, it’s just more of the same thing.

Meg Angelino [00:03:50]:
Oh, yeah. So in a past life, I was a high school civics certified teacher, educator. I I didn’t ever end up in a a, like, traditional classroom, but I definitely worked in that area, like, in with those ages. So I think in terms of, like, the ages of the kids, I wasn’t so nervous. But as we started getting up into the years, I started wondering, am I going to be able to keep up with my kids, especially in some of the fields that I’m not strong in, like math and science. And I definitely had my doubts and my fears that I was going to be able to provide them everything that they wanted and needed to be successful. But at the same time, like you said, and especially through, like, some of the mentorship that I’ve gotten through you, through Don, Garrett, and, Lainie Homan and, like, all, like, the our team and seeing, like, other homeschool moms successfully send high schoolers, not just, like, get through high school, but out into the world and off into careers and into different universities and colleges, I kind of started to feel like, okay. Maybe maybe I can do this.

Meg Angelino [00:05:31]:
I can do it too. If they can do it, I can do it too. So I I would say that it would be unusual for a mom to not wrestle with some of that, though.

Pam Barnhill [00:05:42]:
Oh, yeah. 100%. I think yeah. I think that’s how you know that you’re actually a good homeschool mom and you’re gonna be successful with this is because you do worry about those things and you do wrestle with that. Because that’s the that’s the kernel there that gets you to thinking, okay. This is a concern of mine, so now we’re gonna come up with a solution, you know, for that concern. And so one of the ways you’ve done that is through online classes. Right?

Meg Angelino [00:06:11]:
Yes. We’ve been kind of easing into them with my son since eighth grade. We started off with one. This year, we’re doing two. And next year, he’s taking a dive into taking essentially full time. He’ll be taking all six main credits through an online school. And the school that we’ve chosen, I actually really appreciate, like, how involved I still am able to be. But at the same time, we’re branching out and and taking advantage of those online classes.

Pam Barnhill [00:06:48]:
Yeah. So, yeah, you came up with a solution for that in, like, those concerns that you had. You’re like, alright. This is how we’re gonna do it. And there are lots of different ways to do it. You know, online classes are just one way of doing it, but it’s definitely the way that’s worked for your family. So how has your role as the parent of a high school homeschooler shifted from the earlier years? And you’re still it’s fun because you have two, so you still have one where you’re following that different role

Meg Angelino [00:07:21]:
as well. Absolutely. And and I will say too, I don’t know that we’re gonna follow the same path with my daughter. I have really given my children some of the reins, you know, or, you know, pass some of the reins a little bit and given them some some choices and ask them, you know, what what they want to do and what they think is good for them, but also, you know, through talking and praying with my husband, made some of these decisions. And I think that there are a lot of different reasons for why we made the decision. The role has in part changed because I knew for my son that what he needed from me right now was to be mom and not mom teacher. And there’s a lot of different reasons for that. I think some of it is I think back to Cindy Rollins, mere motherhood, and her talking about how boys really crave mentorship from others, and they they need to not have mom be the boss as they get older.

Meg Angelino [00:08:29]:
And I’ve definitely seen that for my son that he really has blossomed in the few classes that he has already taken online. And I have seen so much, like, success and so much growth in him in those classes that because I found a school that I feel like adheres to our values and our educational philosophies, that it’s a partnership for me to now come alongside him and be a support to him rather than be the main lady assigning all this hard work that is coming his way. And it’s it there’s definitely, like, a push and pull, like, because he’s craving the harder work, but hard work is hard. And, you know, it’s we do we need to do those hard things to grow. I mean, like, muscles, like, the brain needs hard things in order to become stronger and think clear and so on. But with that, you know, there’s the the relational wrestle as well, and it’s just it’s time for him, and he is craving that, like, outside mentorship. So it seems like a natural a natural choice.

Pam Barnhill [00:09:52]:
That’s awesome. So what does his day typically look like? And and I know that all days are different, but just on a general day, what is the high school schedule looking like for him?

Meg Angelino [00:10:03]:
So right now, he is currently just in the two online classes, and he’s actually taking them through two different schools. One of them is a more college model, and so he only meets with the teacher once a week for an hour and a half. And then with the other class, it’s a daily meet for about an hour, fifty minutes. That class is in I scheduled fairly early in the morning, and so he does that. Then we actually do morning time together. And then he goes off, and he works on his independent work. Usually, he has most of his math completed by the time we even sit down at the morning timetable. And then after afterwards, he’ll go and he’ll finish his other work independently.

Meg Angelino [00:10:56]:
We do come together for currently, he’s doing science with me. We’re doing an earth science, and he is also doing PE. And so that one, he also, like, comes to me. And those are fairly independent for him. Like, he doesn’t need a lot of my hand holding for either of them, but we do we do check ins and make sure that everything is moving forward and and so on.

Pam Barnhill [00:11:26]:
Oh, yeah. I love it. And so the math class is one of the online classes. Right? Math and literate?

Meg Angelino [00:11:32]:
Yeah. The other class is an integrated humanities class that actually accounts for his Bible writing, or so, like, English class and his history. And so he’s he’s reading some dudes this year. He just the the one he’s taking right now is the middle ages, and he has just finished, like, the song of Roland and Ivanhoe. He’s got Dante’s Inferno heading up next. So he’s been he’s been getting some, like, heavy literature. He does great writing in there. I was really happy to hand off.

Meg Angelino [00:12:10]:
That was actually the first class he took was one of those integrated humanities classes in the ancients. And writing had always been, like, a a sore spot for us, not because it was hard for him, but it just was it always felt like I was the bad guy.

Pam Barnhill [00:12:26]:
Would you think they have to write it again? Right. I wrote it once already. Why should I have to do it again?

Meg Angelino [00:12:33]:
And it turned out that, like, he actually really likes this stuff, and he’s really enjoying the books. Like, they’re challenging, but he’s very interested in them. And, it’s been fun, like, watching the light bulb come on where, you know, like, oh, mom’s corrections are actually here to help me be a better writer. So that’s one of the things that I do is, like, he writes the paper for the teacher, and I come in, and I will edit it for him. So now I’m his partner in helping him do better. And so once he you know, we work through those edits, and sometimes we’ll work through them two or three times to refine that. And so my I’m not it’s not a completely hands off thing. Like, I I know that sometimes it feels like, you know, if you’re if you do some of these online classes that you’re just giving your your children’s education up entirely and it’s no.

Meg Angelino [00:13:31]:
Like, you’re still their partner, and you’re still coming alongside them. You’re helping them refine. I go in and I correct his math before he turns it in, and we so we’re still talking through things. We’re still learning together, but the the responsibility of handing the assignment and the accountability is no longer on me. And so I don’t have that temptation to be a squishy mom. Yeah. And let those things slide. He is now making steady and consistent progress.

Pam Barnhill [00:14:05]:
I love that so much. Yeah. It’s so easy. Even for, like, those of us who seem like tough guys, it’s so easy to fall into that squishy mom territory. And so, especially with teenage boys that are just going to butt heads with you all the time. You know?

Meg Angelino [00:14:20]:
Oh, absolutely. And it’s not you know, I think sometimes, like, we take it personally. Yeah. And and it’s not personal. Like, their job is to grow and become independent young men and women as they grow older, and we want them to have that independence. We don’t want them, like, haunting our basements when they’re 43. And so we want we want them to go out into the world to be successful, to be able to support their own families. And so it’s natural for them to desire to kind of push away and grow and separate from mom and dad.

Meg Angelino [00:14:58]:
And it’s just awkward and hard the way it happens, and it’s it’s hard to not take it personally sometimes, but we really need to just buckle up and be impervious and, you know, and do our best to, like, not, you know, allow them to do that and show them that, you know, we can become their partner and things and and their friends later on. You know? But at the same time, you know, it’s our duty to be the safety net and hold them accountable also. So there’s definitely a push and pull in the teen years that isn’t maybe is hard when they’re little.

Pam Barnhill [00:15:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So how are you keeping records? Because I know this is one thing that tends to and and I realize he’s in ninth grade, and so you’re at just at the beginning of this record keeping. But do you have a plan for keeping records for, the next few years?

Meg Angelino [00:15:55]:
I do. So I am, anybody who is heard me talk knows that I am a long devoted, which are homeschool year on autopilot fan, like, devotee, whatever you wanna call it. So I I heavily rely on that. I also log everything and maybe to a fault. Like, I keep a handwritten log of the books we read, the things that we listen to on audio, the things we memorize. But the the counter to that is I some of this, I don’t entirely have to keep track of because the schools that he’s taking classes through also are maintaining this. So for me, in part, it’s memory keeping to keep a log of what what is still going on, but it’s also you know, he’s only a freshman now and a sophomore next year. He may change his mind in his junior and senior year as to whether he wants to continue to take online courses.

Meg Angelino [00:17:01]:
So I want to have those habits for myself in place of continuing to keep those records so that if he does indeed choose to return fully home for credits later, that I don’t slip and not have record of what he’s doing.

Pam Barnhill [00:17:20]:
Yeah. That’s good. That’s excellent. How do you keep him motivated? I mean, you said you scheduled that first class early in the morning. How do you get him up and get him moving and keep him motivated and engaged without it becoming a constant struggle?

Meg Angelino [00:17:33]:
I I’m not gonna lie. Like, sometimes it is a struggle. Like, teenage boys don’t wanna get up. They don’t wanna get moving. Their bodies don’t want to. So where I say it’s early, it’s not that early. It’s probably 09:00, I think, it’s his current first class. I think next year, it might be eight.

Meg Angelino [00:17:51]:
But I usually get him up. If I know for him like and and mothers know their children’s habits. I know for him, it’s not so much the getting up early. It’s the time he needs to wake up.

Pam Barnhill [00:18:03]:
Mhmm.

Meg Angelino [00:18:04]:
So I wake him up typically about 07:30 and just kinda let him ease into his morning. A lot of times, especially when the weather’s nice, he will walk with me in the morning, and that helps wake his brain up. And I do try and provide, like, a solid breakfast for him, which is why we don’t do morning time first thing when he gets up. I want to give him that opportunity to wake up, get his things ready, and be ready for his class. And, you know, I think every kid’s a little bit different. My daughter is a morning dove. Like, I don’t even have to wake the girl up. She is up with the sunshine and happy and cheerful and just a different kid.

Meg Angelino [00:18:51]:
And so I think you just need to pay attention and, like, take note of of what your children’s needs are.

Pam Barnhill [00:19:00]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. What about foreign languages?

Meg Angelino [00:19:04]:
He will be taking Latin online next year. And and that one was a wrestle. Like, I had considered I I have a little bit of Latin background myself, not super strong. Like, I know that he’s gonna pass me up, but strong enough that I felt like, okay. I can, you know, give him a good head start on this. And then I realized, you know what? I would rather him take it from somebody who actually is really passionate and excited about it. And so then that was part of the decision to go ahead and just jump in and set him up for an online class. We are considering taking doing an independent study with Italian because I have some native Italian speakers in my family, but we haven’t quite made a solid decision on that one yet.

Meg Angelino [00:19:56]:
So that is the current that’s the current plan.

Pam Barnhill [00:20:00]:
And if you do the Italian you said independent study, so it would be kind of something you would do at home. It wouldn’t be something you would pick up an online class for like the

Meg Angelino [00:20:09]:
Latin. Correct. Correct.

Pam Barnhill [00:20:11]:
Okay. So let’s talk a little bit about navigating high school. You have not purchased the course.

Meg Angelino [00:20:17]:
No. I have not, but I’ve done it.

Pam Barnhill [00:20:20]:
But you did, and you put it together. So Yes. You did it. Let’s talk a little bit about how, what kind of influence it had on you because it kinda came out at the perfect time for you, didn’t it?

Meg Angelino [00:20:33]:
It it really, really did because it it came up just in while he was in eighth grade. So while we were starting to make some of these decisions, actually and I relistened to it again, you know, more than you know, I’ve listened to it a couple of times, not just the initial, like, for myself or or, like, put putting it in the community, but also for myself to, you know, to stop and think about some of the things that were talked about and so on. Yeah. Like, there are some there’s some real good stuff in there and things that helped kind of take some of the guilt off me. There’s a few lessons in there that were actually really instrumental in me saying, you know what? It’s okay to let him go ahead and do all his classes online next year. And that was freeing, you know, to to know like, I know Don talks a lot about outsourcing and even some of the stuff that Laney said about relationships. It was like, okay. This is the right choice for him.

Meg Angelino [00:21:35]:
And that’s really what I think with homeschooling high school, I think that’s really the key is, you know, figuring out what works for your child, not just what works for mom, that works for them and for what their goals are. And so relistening to navigating high school helped me to work through with him some of the goals that he has for his future, but also reassured me that what we were doing was the right thing and was okay. It was okay to make the choices that he needs rather than listening to relatives or friends and you know? Because there is there is a fire hydrant of information coming at you at any given time. I mean, get on any sort of social media, YouTube, Instagram, whatever, and everybody’s gonna tell you you’re doing everything wrong. Like, it because your way is not their way. But I the thing that I loved about navigating high school was it really showed, like, the different types of homeschools. Like, you and Lainie and Don all had very different experiences with your kids and even child to child. And I just really loved hearing that it was okay to listen to what they wanted and that it was okay to outsource, that it was okay to make decisions based on relationships and how to maintain healthy relationship with your child when they’re going through all the angst of teen years.

Meg Angelino [00:23:25]:
And I just thought that it I I think it’s a great course, and I really think that any parent that is moving into the high school years will benefit from it, whether they choose to outsource like I have or they choose to completely homeschool at home, like, all the way through. And I’ll be honest. Like, I think that I’ve got one kiddo that might do that. She might she has often said, I don’t really want to take online classes, and that’s okay. Like and I I love that that navigating high school gives you the permission to do that instead of saying, oh, this is the one way to do it.

Pam Barnhill [00:24:05]:
Yeah. Actually, I will tell you that if we had not had multiple voices in the course and if you’re not familiar with the course, I mean, we will link link it for you in the show notes, of course. But, it is it’s me, but it’s also Dawn Garrett and then, Lainie Homan, who is a mom of eight and has graduated four. I think Dawn at the time we recorded the course, Dawn and I had both graduated one, which I said I would never do a high school course until I’ve graduated at least one one high schooler. And then Heather Tully, who’s a mom of 10 and who, I think, at the time of the course had graduated three. And so if it were not for those other ladies, that course would not exist. Because even though I had graduated one child, I knew at that point that you’ve still only graduated one child. Like, you’ve still only had one high school homeschool experience.

Meg Angelino [00:25:01]:
Right.

Pam Barnhill [00:25:01]:
And people need to hear about multiple homeschool high school experiences because what I do and what works for my family or some days feels like doesn’t work for my family. It’s not something that I can lay on top of somebody else and say, this is the way you’re supposed to do it. To me, it’s a totally different thing than put your homeschool year on autopilot. Right? Like that It is.

Meg Angelino [00:25:25]:
It’s very different.

Pam Barnhill [00:25:26]:
I know if you follow the steps, you’re gonna come up with a workable plan. Even if you tweak it or something, it is still going to be very valuable and very helpful to you because it’s the process, you know, whereas navigating high school and coming in and saying, okay. Now let’s talk about high school is so much more experience based than process based, if that makes sense.

Meg Angelino [00:25:50]:
Oh, absolutely. And, I mean, there’s so much, like, solid advice in there about how to count credits. And, I mean, even, like, some of the stuff, like the interviews with because you’ve interviewed several people. I mean, you’ve got Colin Kessler talking about your gifted and differently wired learners. You’ve got Andrew Pudowa talking about writing. You’ve got doctor Moon talking about lab sciences. I mean, these are things that parents there’s the one on word language. I mean, there’s so many things that get talked about in there that are concerns for parents in terms of, like, how do I do this? How do I navigate this? Even you know, I listened to the one with mister d with my daughter because she’s you know, we’ve been talking about, like, different math options.

Meg Angelino [00:26:43]:
And, you know, just being able to talk about it, like, listen to it with them and, like, talk about it with them. And even though it’s not targeted for them, like, to have those conversations is not a bad thing because it gives them some ownership of their high school education, which I do think is really important. It’s almost like the safety net under the tight rope walker. You know, they’re starting to kind of venture out, and, you know, you’re there to provide that safety net. So they’re learning to venture out into their education and their learning and take ownership and say, this is mine, but you’re still there as their homeschool mentor and teacher to provide them with, like, the structure and the safety net that they need in order to have a successful career. Because they’re not gonna know, you know, that, like, oh, if I wanna go to college, I need these math credits or these science credits. But you as mom, you know.

Pam Barnhill [00:27:51]:
Yeah. And I think it’s good for them to realize that you don’t just wake up in the morning thinking, how am I gonna make my kid’s life miserable today? That there’s actually, like, some forethought and some planning Right. And, like, and reasons for doing the things that you’re doing. You know? Even if those reasons are just to move them to the next level, and we talk about that a lot in navigating high school. It’s like, we’re not gonna close any doors. Like, we’re gonna we’re gonna get them to the next level. You know? Right. Whatever that level be, if it’s college, job, technical school, whatever.

Pam Barnhill [00:28:24]:
You know? And and there’s a plan there.

Meg Angelino [00:28:27]:
There’s you know? That was a huge comfort to me to be like, okay. We’re making this decision for this year where we’re gonna do all the classes online, but that doesn’t mean the door has been closed on saying the next year’s gonna look the same. Right. We could come choose to say, okay. Maybe we’re gonna pull back and just do the math class online or the science class or the foreign language class. Like, maybe that’s what we’ll do, but that door is not closed. And, you know, at the same time, like, my goal is to make sure as many doors are open for my children as they move into adulthood. So as we’re kind of navigating the choices that we are making with with what their upcoming courses are and so on, we’re doing them with, like, an an awareness, which, I mean, I think navigating high school does a great job of navigating that, not to be punny.

Meg Angelino [00:29:31]:
We’re going in with open eyes as to what requirements are, what is coming down the line, what choices need to be made in order to have as many open doors as possible. Because, I mean, I certainly would feel horrible if my child said, well, I wanna go to this college, you know, and I failed to make sure that they had the correct math classes or the right number of English credits or whatever. So

Pam Barnhill [00:30:02]:
Yeah. And that’s why and we’d stress this over and over in the course, like keeping communication open with your child. What is it they want to do? And then, also, this is something we cover in the course, which is so important, knowing what to do and how to talk to the kid who has no idea what they wanna do. Yeah. Right. Because that’s like a totally different animal.

Meg Angelino [00:30:22]:
There it is. There there are some children that are so I have one of each. I have one child that is very, very driven in the direction that they’re going, has a fairly clear idea of the their desires, and another child that is happy to just float through life. You know? They’re both great. Like, it’s not that one is bad or wrong, but, you know, to to provide that that safety net again of, like, I’m going to be the one to ensure like, I am willing to listen to your choices, and I want to hand over the reins and responsibility here. But I am the one who is responsible to make sure that things that are necessary are getting done. And so I, as the mom, as the high homeschool parent, need to be the one who is ultimately aware of what those requirements are so that I can ensure that they’re being met.

Pam Barnhill [00:31:25]:
I love it. So what advice would you give to parents who are considering homeschooling high school if they stumbled on this podcast and they’re like, maybe I can do this? What would you tell them?

Meg Angelino [00:31:35]:
Well, I would say the first thing, I would I would tell them, pick up pick up navigating high school because I don’t think you’ll go wrong for for having that knowledge in your back pocket. I would also encourage them to pick up pick autopilot because, like, having a clear plan and vision is really integral for having a successful homeschool. And I would also say, mama, dad, you’re doing great. Like, if this is what your kid wants to do and you are onboard, like, it’s a partnership, and it’s a tremendous privilege to learn and educate your learn alongside and educate your children at the same time because, I mean, it is it’s a refining process. Like, learning happens even if you don’t intend it to. Yeah. You will learn alongside your own children as you are educating them, and it’s so good. And I I love it so much, and I I would I would totally encourage somebody who is thinking about it to jump in.

Meg Angelino [00:32:48]:
It’s not as bad as it sounds. And on that note,

Pam Barnhill [00:32:53]:
it’s not as bad as it sounds. We will end the podcast. But, Meg, thank you so much for coming on and joining us. If you would like to connect with Meg, she is a very active member of the Homeschool Better Together community. Actually, she is the glue that holds the whole portal and platform and app together and keeps it from falling apart. But if you get in there and ask her a question, she is sure to come along and answer you. So you can find her over there. We’d love to answer any questions that anybody has.

Pam Barnhill [00:33:25]:
Like,

Meg Angelino [00:33:25]:
I love talking to homeschool parents. And thank you, Pam, for this opportunity. It’s it’s always fun to talk to you and to talk about homeschooling.

Pam Barnhill [00:33:35]:
That’s our show for today. Be sure to follow, subscribe, and leave a review so you never miss out on the wonder of homeschooling better together. To stay connected and learn even more about the homeschooling better together resources and to join our free community, visit hsbtpodcast.com. Until next week, keep stepping out of the overwhelm and into the wonder.